GGG-Canelo media scorecards & CompuBox

Dispute all you want. It doesn't mean that people will agree with you.

I actually did go through 9 counting punches but it's harder than it looks, cause by the time you've jotted down the punch and the time, the action has moved on and you missed something. I did Golovkin's reasonably clearly and I still have to do Canelo's. I probably should slomo the thing from scratch.

Round 4: 14 GGG, 9 Canelo
Round 5: 17 GGG, 13 Canelo

FYI Compubox had them 18-13 and 18-14 respectively. I usually count more conservatively than compubox. Other guys like Artorias counted a landslide in Golovkin's favour, but a lot of the stuff is partially blocked and I don't like to count that.

 

I thought Canelo controlled the 4th round pretty clearly and I had Canelo edging the 4th in a toss up kind of round. And I thought that Canelo was in control of the 5th round for the first two minutes until that sequence when he went to the ropes and Gennady managed to tag him with that big punch with his head turned. Then Canelo started to go into full retreat in the final minute, so I saw that as a tide turning moment and I thought that punch and the way the round ended was enough for me to give the round to G. Still, if you look at the 5th, due to Canelo's work and control in the first two minutes, that despite the big punch by G with a minute left, I thought Canelo landed more punches overall that round, which is backed up by HBO's live punch stats which had Canelo with a 14-9 punch advantage over Gennady with 15 second left in the round and with Gennady only landing 1 more punch after that. These number of course were mysteriously changed to a 18-14 Gennady advantage in the Compubox numbers that were released after the fight.

Even by your calculations, those are pretty close numbers, especially Round 5. And at the risk of sounding repetitive, HBO's live punch stats had Canelo with a 14-9 lead late in that round. There's still a discrepancy there that concerns me and leads me to believe that possibly 7 or 8 of the punches Gennady eventually got credit for were partly slipped or blocked but I'll have to take a closer look myself. Obviously somebody involved in the punch stat process counting it real-time had Canelo with a significant lead that round. Now before you go all conspiracy on me claiming that Oscar De La Hoya was counting the live stats for HBO, understand that I'm not even arguing that Canelo won that round. Like I said, I gave that round to G because he landed the big punch that changed momentum. But I think you would agree that Canelo was winning that round in the first half of the round, and if anything G turned the tide in the round in the final minute starting with that sequence with Canelo going back to the ropes. So that's certainly not a "clear" G round, more like a toss up round that G possibly edged down the stretch.

If you are claiming that the 11th and the 12th were toss up rounds, then I don't see why I can't claim that the 4th and the 5th are essentially toss up rounds as well. And we haven't even got into Rounds 8 and 9 where Canelo was admittedly outlanded but landed what were by far the hardest most effective punches in the round.

All in all, you have a situation where even in the rounds that everyone seems to agree Gennady won (4-9) you have several of these rounds that are either very close in terms of landed punches (4&5) or Canelo landing hard earth shattering punches (8&9). Even in the 6th a round that I think we can both agree Gennady outworked Canelo in, you still have Canelo landing a vicious uppercut better than anything Gennady landed.

Then we have the 7th round which Don Trella gave to Canelo. No rounds should be off limits to debate and examination.

 

I don't generally count punches but I like to do punch summaries going punch-for-punch and noting the time. With round 9, in addition to counting the overall punches landed, more importantly, if you can, I think it would be useful for both of us to rank the Top 5 most effective hardest most impactful punches (by either fighter) landed in that round. I'm trying to see who you thought landed the absolute best punches in that round. That doesn't mean that the person who landed the best most effective punches won the round, because quantity matters too, but it's a good way of showing just how close and debatable the round was in addition to counting the overall landed punches.

Round 9, that's a round that you'll probably end up having G landing a few more punches overall (though I'm still interested to see what you come up with) but there's a big difference in the quality of the punches landed in that round in particular which I'm hopeful that you will be able to observe. I'll be happy to give you my Top 5 punches in that round with timestamps and it could lead to a fascinating discussion.

 

I just want to add that I have a full appreciation for the work it takes when you say counting punches is "harder than it looks". Punch summaries aren't easy work either, it takes a lot of pausing and unpausing to decide what is landing and if anything noteworthy happens. Sometimes you don't get the best angles so it's hard to tell if a punch actually lands or not. (like what if a fighter receiving a jab with his gloves up has his back turned to the camera . . . you literally have no way of knowing whether it was blocked or landed and you have to like look at the back of the fighter's head to see if it moves or something)

For you to count punches landed, surely there's guesswork involved on some of the punches which is why I don't put too much stock in punch stats since all punches landed aren't of the same quality or effectiveness, and how do you decide what lands when you see a punch that hits 50% glove and 50% face or something? Or a punch that grazes Canelo's beard as he's moving away from it or something? (like that left uppercut by Gennady in the 8th) I mean if you count both uppercuts in the 8th as a punch landed that's 1 to 1 but obviously they are far from equal. 1 uppercut landed hard and snapped a head back violently causing damage while the other grazed a beard and caused 0.00% damage. People tend to see what they want to see, but I try to be as unbiased as I can. I find that ranking the Top 5 best most effective landed punches in a round (by either fighter) generally seems to me to be a good way to gauge who did the better work in a round than just by counting punches. (or at the very least, a starting point to making that assessment)

 

Bro, I feel we all admire your pure dedication in defending every single thing Alveraz but you're missing far too much. In most competitive fights (this was a competitive fight) anyone can look their hardest and find reasons to give rounds to their fighter.

Ggg truly won, clearly.
The draw should tell any fan all they bee to know. Going in we all agreed ggg winning a decision was just about impossible, that's because CA I'd a great fighter and great fighters always keep fights competitive. Outside of a KO, there was NO WAY ggg was walking away with the W.

The rematch will settle all disputes, truestory

 

Bro, I feel we all adire your pure dedication in defending every single thing Gennady but you're missing far too much.

Canelo truly won, clearly. Canelo had more total points. Canelo clearly landed the harder, more impactful, more effective, more earth shattering punches. Canelo clearly landed more body shots than Gennady. Canelo made Gennady miss more than Gennady made Canelo miss. Canelo landed several hard, head crunching dramatic sensational uppercuts. As far as I can tell, Gennady didn't land any comparable or significant uppercuts. Just that list of facts alone shatters any myth that Gennady won or that it wasn't close or anything in that ballpark.

Those who have the fight 8-4 for Gennady are more delusional than myself who had it somewhere in the ballpark of 8-4 for Canelo. This is not a popularity contest and trying to peer pressure me into thinking I'm wrong isn't going to work because the facts are on my side.

Gennady Golovkin got thoroughly outboxed round after round by Saul Canelo Alvarez, but to his credit he kept it close by coming forward throwing a lot of punches and landing some of them. If you really try hard, you can find 6-8 rounds to give to Gennady to justify a draw or a narrow points win, but that's stretching it. Gennady needs to land more impactful clean effective punches if he wants to convincingly defeat Alvarez. Gennady is known as a monster puncher knockout artist and at no time did Alvarez ever appear to be hurt or bothered by anything Gennady was doing. Most of Gennady's fans predicted a knockout or knockdowns which never happened.

You yourself claim you and "we", which I guess by that you mean the vast majority of Triple G fans, stated that G winning a decision would be impossible, but if I recall it was more that Canelo would certainly win the fight if it went to the cards since the theory was that Golden Boy had it rigged that Canelo would win and that's not what happened, since it was a draw, which shatters that conspiracy. You shoud be happy that the Vegas judges gifted Gennady a draw after being thoroughly outboxed and punished like he was, it just goes to show that Gennady got the benefit of the doubt when you and most of your fellow G fans didn't think would happen.

I am happy to debate any of these points, I am a very reasonable boxing fan. I have no problem if you thought G won by a round or 2, I am very accepting of other boxing fans opinions, but it works both ways. I had Canelo winning rounds 1,2,3,4,10,11,12, however Rounds 1 and 4 were very close and I could see how somebody could score those for Gennady. (especially round 4, which was truly a toss up round in my view, round 1 was close but I thought Canelo clearly won it in a low output round, Gennady was very cautious and most people gave Round 1 to Canelo) Rounds 5,8,9 which were pretty much universaly seen as clear Gennady rounds were actually very close and I could see how somebody could score those for Canelo due to how close they were.

I don't agree with the wideness of the Byrd card but it was not as ridiculous as you are making it seem. Sugar Ray Leonard had a judge give the same score in his fight with Hagler, yet most people saw that as a close fight that SRL won, and there wasn't anywhere near the outrage over that. (different time though, I get that) I had Canelo G somewhere between the extremes of the judges which is perfectly reasonable, something in the vicinity of 8 rounds to 4 for Canelo (because I really have a hard time deciding who won rounds like 8 and 9) which for any other fight would be seen as normal, but as we all know every time Canelo is in with a top fighter there's always outrage over the judges cards because for whatever reason people just can't seem to accept how good he is or just don't want to.

 

I had this fight 7-5 for GGG but can see it the other way for Canelo. It was a very competitive fight and I give Canelo props for his footwork that helped him avoid a lot of big punches.

Having said that, and it appears most people thought it was a close fight.

Here's what gets me, a lot of GGG fans, myself included, were expecting the only way he could win would be by KO. A lot of us felt he would get robbed by the judges.
Doesn't the 10-2 card pretty much prove that point? If it was a close fight and could reasonably be judged 7-5 for either guy, doesn't such a wide card like 10-2 basically prove the pre fight fears that GGG wouldn't get a fair shake in Vegas?
Why can Canelos fans admit that?

 

K

 

Call it like I see it. World had him winning. Canelo has gotten so many questionable scorecards in his favor.

 

Look at this sycophant cuck writing novels in defense of his privileged cuck idol. It transcends cringy!

 

Is this your post time job ?
I had the fight very competitive and could even see how one could conclude a draw, the draw made me happy because that means a rematch, for sure. You're over exaggerating these earth shattering world changing shots landed by CA and ignoring the more impacting blows landed by the much heavier handed ggg.

There were reasons CA could only explode for seconds at a time while ggg was relentlessly attacking the retreating fighter. I loved the fight, very technical that showed off that both have elite talent, which I had been claiming for years. CA was in retreat more than he was in any offensive mode. That's what ggg did to him.

Great fight, no reason debating something that's not debatable towards me. I know exactly what I saw every single time I've seen the fight. You can get a draw out of it if you have CA every single close round. It was a close competitive fight, but we all know who should've won.

Ggg getting a draw from those judges tells you everything you should need to know.

 

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Honestly I thought a draw was fair.

 

Is it your full time job to defend GGG regarding everything and exaggerating what he did against Canelo? The man is supposed to be a KO artist, but Canelo reduced him to a jabber. Canelo also unleashed a brutal body attack on GGG that doesn't get mentioned as much as it should, and he landed the more telling punches upstairs more consistently.

Its an undeniable truth that Canelo indeed commit to his punches more so than Golovkin throughout the fight. It is also much riskier to throw body punches because you leave your head open, and Canelo did a magnificent job landing body punches, all while Golovkin was chasing Canelo and flicking the jab. Canelo did noticeably slow down in the middle rounds, but then picked up the pace in the last 3 rounds, sweeping all of them imo.

Perhaps you haven't seen many of Canelo's fights, but that is how Canelo fights. He fights in spurts, and he invites his opponents to come to him. Canelo is most comfortable having his opponents stalk him so that he can counter with his power punches.

The way Canelo fought was nothing new. I'm not sure why you think he was fighting out of character.

Golovkin on the other hand was stalking and landing mostly jabs, the weakest and safest punch to throw in boxing, while Canelo was landing his power punches. If anything Golovkin was fighting out of character as he was reduced to mostly jabbing.

Lol You're bias.

On one hand you say you can see Canelo getting a draw but then say "we all know who should've won"?? What kind of contradictory comment is that? The reason the fight was a draw was because it was a close fight. The best score Golovkin got was 7-5, and as an unbias fan, I can respect that score because a lot of the rounds were close, ad I understand that some judges favor aggression. I can also accept people scoring the fight for Canelo because some people prefer clean effective punching which is what Canelo did more consistently.

The fact that you can't accept that a very close fight could be scored for Canelo or scored a draw shows your bias, and as such you lose some credibility.

 

Canelo landed 4 (four) count em' FOUR more power punches than Golovkin. Oh, boy! A great victory! Meanwhile GGG landed over 50 (fifty) count em' FIFTY more jabs than Canelo. Let me guess: you think Germany won WW2 as well, right?