GGG is - at the very least - the Greatest middleweight since Hagler

Yeah , no chit it was out of his control , and what could he do to take control ? Nothing. His offence was shut down by a pot shotting counter puncher who fought in spurts.

I never said Canelo should have fought more. He did fine as it was.. It was GGG who needed to fight more and apply more pressure. You complain that Alverez moving was unfair on Golovkin , well what about all the times he rested his back on the ropes? GGG should have capitalized on the opportunity , yet he didn't. He left him off the hook over and over again. A ture great wouldn't do that , especially when they knew a thorough drubbing was in order just to obtain a draw.

Forget about what other people say and fight your own battle. What adjustments did GGG make from the fight he arguably deserved to lose against Jacobs? Absolutely none.
He knew , his team knew and all of his fanboys knew that he'd have to improve on that performance to beat or deserve a nod over Canelo.
He went in and produced the exact same performance - head hunting with jabs. He failed to adapt and he failed to adjust.
Canelo was the guy who made clear adjustments , boxing a way he never boxed before as you said so yourself.
He had the foresight and adaptability to change up his strategy , GGG didn't.

Boxing off the back foot isn't a skill?? lololololol. Then Ali , Floyd , Whitaker etc etc had no skill?

Back peddling is movement and movement is footwork. Elite , multi dimensional footwork and continuous coordinated backfoot movement is a great skill to posses.
Tactics is strategy and game plans. Good footwork is the definition of skill in boxing.

So what?? Thats boxing. No smaller guy is going to beat GGG by walking straight into him. He did what he needed to do and GGG wasn't good enough to take him out of his rhythm , hence why he was out landed on power punches - the most telling and significant shots of a fight.

The same people said Pacquaio was robbed against Horn when he clearly wasn't. I don't let outside sources influence my opinion.

Anyway , im not arguing who deserved to win the fight , a case can be made for both guys. There was opportunity there for Canelo to be dominated but GGG wasn't good enough to deliver such a performance.

Thats why he isn't the greatest MW since Hagler. Hopkins would never have given Canelo a moments rest and would've grinded him down to a stoppage loss. Even the old Hopkins who dominated Trinidad would have handled Canelo , mid 30's Nard who threw the kitchen sink and could hit you with uppercuts from half way across the ring irons out Canelo in lop- sided fashion.
A host of MWs after Hagler wipe out Canelo - MaCallum , Toney , Jones , GMan , Martinez .. GGG didn't produce a performance to suggest he's on the same level as those guys , never mind Marvin Hagler.

 

****** brit boy spamming it up.

 

As it relates to Boxing, GGG had control of all the measurable aspects of the fight....Range, tempo and Pace. It wasn’t what GGG had to do, but what Alvarez needed to do to wrestle control away from Golovkin. Which wasn’t possible by the tactic he opted to go with. Back peddling as a tactic is in most cases to survive, run the clock down or to take a rest.

If you think Canelo “shut” GGG down, that’s on you. It’s an interesting notion and one that can’t be validated based on the action that took place inside the ring, but again...you have a very unique perspective on how you view the sweet science. If shutting someone down means being controlled, out punched, out landed and forced to retreat then I guess that makes sense? Lol

GGG needing to apply more pressure is like saying Canelo needed to backpedal more. Lol. Golovkin was constantly moving Canelo around the ring. That’s not Canelo’s MO. He never fights like that.....GGG made Alvarez change up his style and forced him to fight at a very uncomfortable pace to which Alvarez had no recourse. He could have tried to adjust but didn’t have the answers to the pressure he was under...all he could do was be defensive, reactive and backpedal.

Forget about what people say? Lol. They are saying the same thing I’m saying. It’s not a battle Chief. Lol. Chill. I felt Jacobs won a razor close decision against GGG. Can’t really argue against those who had it for Golovkin but I thought Danny won by a couple rounds.

Canelo Boxing in a way he had never boxed before wasn’t an adjustment they yielded progress or an improved position as a boxer. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The style Alvarez opted to go with wasn’t one he wanted to use, he had no other choice in his mind. Based on what GGG was bringing, Alvarez either had to stand his ground or relive pressure by backing up. He chose to back up and mitigate risk.

Boxing off the back foot is a skill....not back peddling. If you are comparing what Canelo did in his fight with GGG to Ali or Floyd then you are sinking with your ship. Lol. Alvarez isn’t Ali or Floyd and if Canelo’s intent was to mirror either of those guys he failed miserably. It’s not something he should attempt off a wimb....If that’s what him and his team worked on in camp in preparation for GGG, would be one thing....but that’s not the game plan or strategy they worked on. His own corner was telling Alvarez throughout the fight to stay off the ropes, keep the fight in the center of the ring etc.....not to “float like a butterfly”.

Using angles, shifts, pivots, lateral movement are all defensive skills related to footwork. Back peddling is something anyone can do....again, it’s a tactic, not a skill.

Let’s be real....Canelo isn’t s smaller guy. Lol. He definitely weighed more than GGG on fight night. GGG is one inch taller and has a reach advantage. Let’s not rationalize Canelo’s back peddling on the premise that he was the “smaller” man. That’s desperation.

No...the same people did not say PAC was robbed against Horn. Most boxers and trainers who weighed in thought Horn won in a close fight....A lot of the fans felt PAC won but there was a good portion of fans who thought he lost as well. The overwhelming consensus in the GGG vs Alvarez fight was that GGG won....boxers, trainers, analysts fans....it was completely lopsided. Just like those who felt Whitaker beat Chavez and the draw was a gift for Julio....Most feel the same thing here. That GGG won and Alvarez got a gift.

If you said GGG was “shut down”.....how can you justify “making a case for both guys”? Lol.

GGG is the best Middleweight champion since HOPKINS.....Based on his accomplishments in the division. I don’t necessarily think that GGG would beat all the other middleweights over the course of the last 50 years as styles make fights and we had some exceptional middleweights like Toney, Jones JR....Nunn etc. but based on his title defenses, consistency and longevity reigning over the division he’s behind Bernard and Hagler.

 

1) Great post
2) I thought Golovkin beat Jacobs fairly clearly but I do agree Jacobs was a harder fight than Canelo
3) I think he's ahead of Hopkins on the basis of HOW he beat his opponents. That said, Hopkins is still ahead on sheer numbers, but, probably not for long.
4) Agree that GGG forced Alvarez to try something new, because he knew that he would not beat him in a straight up shootout. He tried the Danny Jacobs route but threw too few punches. Jacobs looked dangerous; Canelo looked flashy.
5) People criticize GGG for being "one dimensional". Ummm. If that approach keeps winning, WTF would you mess with it?

 

How do you know that? So their gameplan was to fight GGG toe -to-toe? What was their game plan for Golovkin?

No , he absolutely was the smaller man. If you come up from a division bellow that means you are the smaller guy , not to mention there was a blatant size disparity visible to any non biased observer. I guess im arguing with a die hard GGG nut rider here.

You're just repeating yourself now and everything you posted was rearranged sentences from your previous posts which i already addressed.

Its not on me that Canelo shut down GGG . Its a reality based on the fact that GGG destroyed and knocked down everyone of his 17 world title opponents prior to facing Canelo.
He couldn't hurt , stagger nor buzz Alverez and that wasn't due to him pulling his punches , it was due to Canelo being the superior ring general.

Anybody who blames Canelo's backfoot strategy as reason why GGG couldn't impose his dominance - either doesn't understand boxing or is a blinded fanboy.

'Back peddling' as you call it , was Alverez setting traps and luring Golovkin into counters. You're basically arguing that Canelo retreating made it an unfair on GGG since he wasn't able to land his power punches

Even if it was true that Canelo biked it all night (it isn't) what GGGs excuse for all the rounds Canelo 'took off ' and stood right in front of him?

So GGG struggled with canelo's back peddling , he wanted a more stationary target , but when he got one , he still couldn't put any hurting on Canelo?? How does that work?

 

I guess reading comprehension isn't a strong suit for you? Lol. When did I say Jacobs won 5 world titles? There's nothing to argue kid. You're arguing with yourself which concerns me. Are you sure everything is alright chief? Let me know if I can help?

 

No arguments here. I can see how people felt GGG beat Jacobs....the knockdown was huge for Golovkin and there were many rounds that could've gone to GGG that I felt Jacobs edged.

GGG definitely was more dominant in how he sliced through the middleweight opposition in this era. Not that Bhop struggled against most of them. He did lose to Jones and Taylor so you definitely have a valid argument in placing GGG ahead of Hopkins. I just think the quality of opposition was a bit tougher during his reign.

GGG is not at all one dimensional. That always makes me wonder about those who make that claim. They just have no clue.

 

Dino's complaining that Golovkin didn't macerate Canelo and eat him on toast. As if that's some sort of crime.

Yeah, sometimes, you just win and that's enough.

 

certainly is nothing to argue with since u just wrote-

sorry JD you are a now proven liar to everyone on the forum, so you'll be put on ignore until you learn not to lie.

bye, good man.

 

Of course Alvarez wasn't training to go toe to toe with GGG. That's silly. Alvarez had respect for Golovkin's power and had said that he's very good all around in terms of his skills as a fighter. But, what Alvarez did not train for was to backpedal and put in road work during the fight. He said he would be aggressive and take the fight to GGG in order to score a knockout. That was their objective which didn't reflect when it came down to the fight itself.

Canelo struggled for years trying to make 154. There were many critics of Alvarez who said it was an unfair advantage for him fighting at Jr middleweight and weighing close to 170 on fight night. He moved up to fight at 164 against Chavez and to middleweight to fight Cotto. Nelo is a natural middleweight for sure. He's shorter than Golovkin, not smaller.

I actually picked Alvarez to beat GGG and I'm more of Alvarez fan than a Golovkin fan. If Canelo is fighting and GGG is fighting on the same night I'd watch Alvarez vs GGG....but I am more of a fan of boxing than anyone boxer. My stance is that I predicted the upset, but was completely wrong and I underestimated Golovkin based on his fight with Danny. I hate robberies and bad decisions which is why I am taking time to discuss the details of the fight with the few who actually thought the draw was justified or for those who claim they thought Alvarez won. It's silly to me. Just as silly for those who thought the draw was justified in the Whitaker/Chavez fight or the LL/Holyfield fight. All 3 were robberies and that's how they are remembered years later.

There's a lot of unrealistic perceptions of GGG on both sides of the fence and their expectations are a bit delusional. Some expect GGG to dominate and KO everyone from 160 to heavyweight...others feel he's a one dimensional hype job who really can't box. He's human who happens to be a great boxer. He's not unbeatable....no one is. Even the best boxers struggle against certain styles and boxers which is something history proves. There hasn't been one hall of fame boxer or ATG who didn't have difficult fights. And there hasn't been one boxer at this level who knocked out every opponent of they've ever faced. So expecting that from Golovkin is unfair.

Not hurting or dropping Alvarez doesn't mean Canelo was the Ring General. Lol. The criteria in who is the Ring General is clear, which is who controls the action inside the ring. Which fighter is dictating the pace, the distance and tempo. Alvarez wasn't controlling any of those aspects in the fight with Golovkin. But you are right in stating Alvarez wasn't buzzed or hurt.....neither was GGG.

Alvarez's back peddling strategy didn't impact GGG dominating the fight at all. Golovkin clearly won just as Whitaker clearly won against Chavez and LL clearly won against Holyfield. The only impact Canelo's back peddling had was making the fight more of a cat and mouse kind of affair than a action packed boxing match where both men were looking for a knockout and not just looking to go the distance.

Alvarez laid some traps that were effective, but they were few and far between. When he was effective it wasn't just straight up back peddling...he would plant, pivot or use angles to unload on Golovkin who was always closing in. Many times he was backing up throwing punches just to keep distance in between him and Golovkin and never landed.

There was nothing unfair or not on a level playing field as it relates to the tactics or strategic approach either of these guys implemented. It's just one was more effective than the other which was clear. Now the judges being influenced.....that wasn't fair but definitely no surprise.

Canelo didn't take off any rounds. Lol.....he put in more road work in 36 minutes than he probably put in over the 8 week training camp. Lol. When Alvarez did stand in front of GGG it was usually when he was forced to the ropes or cornered....GGG respected Alvarez's skills and power. He knew that even though Alvarez was in retreat mode most of the fight, that Alvarez is still dangerous and couldn't get reckless on a cornered pit bull. Alvarez never planted his feet longer than a few seconds before skating around the ring. He was able to mitigate a lot of risk by choosing to retreat so much.

 

Lol. Fall back chief.. You're throwing out accusations that you can't validate based on your position. How did I lie again?

I honestly didn't think you would actually go back and quote me. Lol. I'm a damn Jedi!

Now can you see your lapse in reading comprehension? Lol. Jacob's won the vacant WBA title from Jarrod Fletcher in 2014....he went on to defend the WBA title against Caleb Traux in April the following year...are you counting?

He then went on to defend his WBA championship against Sergio Mora 4 months later in August of 2015...don't lose count kid....In December of 2015 Danny squared off against Peter Quillin defending his WBA title again....a rematch with Sergio Mora took place in September 2016 which makes a TOTAL of fight title defenses of the WBA championship before he took on GGG in March 2017 in a unification match.

The 5-1 record in major world title fights is fact....not a lie or something fabricated. The one loss on Danny's record in a title fight before losing to GGG was the WBO title match between him and Dimitry Pirog.

Why are you so upset kid? I think the emotional instability creates most of your issues chief. I hope you are alright?

 

Lol....worried about you chief.

 

Man, if only this chump would put me on ignore too. You are a lucky man!

 

Baloney. As if he's going to reveal his strategy and galmeplan to the world before the fight. He said what he said , and he fought how he fought. He most certainly fought a fight he prepared for in camp. End of story.

I would argue it is since GGG is the bigger more powerful man and he failed to make a significant mark on the fight over the full 12 rounds.
Coming forward didn't mean he was dictating the pace , thats what Golovkin does , he comes forward , in every fight.
Canelo came forward on Mayweather , doesn't mean he dictated the pace , tempo and the fight.

Canelo walked him around the ring and outlanded him on power punches while also hitting him with with a more varied rage of punches - uppercuts , hooks , right hands , body shots.
All while taking very little return fire himself. Thats superior ring generalship , you can't argue those facts away no matter hard you try.

Which is why it ended in a draw.

GGG neither dominated nor clearly won the fight. You can argue he won by the skin of his teeth , you can also argue Canelo won by the skin of his teeth. At the end of the day , GGGs lack luster performance failed to secure him the win.
The impact of Canelo's counter striking made Golovkin hesitant to apply the pressure needed to take full control of the fight.
And Canelo didn't do that entirely off the back foot , he did it while standing right in front of him and with his back on the ropes.

Canelo took rounds off to conserve energy and it wasn't the first time in his career either. His work-rate and stamina for his level is abysmal. For large portions of rounds he did nothing but flick a jab and move from side to side.
It was on GGG to smother Canelo during these moments yet he didn't and or couldn't.

You need to watch it again because the memory of what you have in your head and what actually transpired is totally different.
A few seconds you say? Thats easily debunked with footage.

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There's moments there where its clearly GGG who is on the retreat.

This has evolved into a 'won debate' and i wanted to avoid that since there was no true winner in my eyes .

My argument is Golovkin didn't look like an ATG fighter , he looked like an ordinary one , certainly not greater than Hopkins and nowhere near the level of Hagler.
At this stage there's not much he can do to establish himself as a true ATG. He could by wrecking Canelo in the rematch but thats unlikely to happen. If anybody came out the ATG in that fight it was AlvereZ and he's by no means an ATG either.

 

I don't know....I kind of like the surprises that he always delivers. Lol