GGG vs a Prime Arthur Abraham

I'm not gonna say you're wrong about GGG getting beaten by X, Y and Z, but what are you basing that opinion on? Every P4P fighter - your Ward, your FMJ was at some point a contender who'd yet to prove themselves. Seems to me you're just saying GGG gets beaten cos he's not yet beaten top tier opposition and that your 'eye test' says he won't.

As pointed out the 'resume' test tells us little about a fighter who's comprehensively beaten all his opponents, and the 'eye test' is simply personal opinion.

In short, not a one of us can tell what he does to the fighters you mention (each of whom are top tier guys from a division above him), and acting like you have a crystal ball and have seen these fights does nothing to further any point you may have been trying to make.

All your words amount to is 'I don't think Golovkin's that good' - you coulda saved yourself some time.

 

Taylor had lost 2 of his last 3, dropped by shot Lacy. Agree it wasnt clear he was 100% shot, became clear shortly

As I said Pascal was a nobody struggling with Omar Pittman on espn. Of course its a good win in retrospect however were talking peoples perception at the time. Froch was not highly regarded.

Dunno about GGG and S6, hed probably be favored if AA was. Ring Foty, in many p4p lists (not mine). Thats more hype than Abe got

 

Golovkin is a good fighter, no one is denying that. The problem we have is the unwarranted hype bestowed on him by his fan boys as if hes doing something we've never seen before. You have people on this forum comparing his punching his power to Julian Jackson and Gerald McClellan when in reality GGG breaks most of he's opponents down.
Secondly, like every sports defense is very important and is often under valued in boxing. Take a look at the top 3 pound for pound fighters (Floyd, Rigo, and Ward) and tell us what these men all have in common. That's right they are all defensive masters. We've seen GGG get hit and bruised by the second tier opponents. There is a reason why guys like Bernard Hopkins and James have remained relevant in boxing at such. Its due to their defensive skills and GGG does not have that. In his fight with Stevenson and other fights we saw GGG get tag a few times. Now imagine if that was froch, mikkel Kesler or Adonis Stevenson when he was a super middle weight tagging GGG. When I watch a fight, I pay very close attention to certain things that a lot of people don't pay attention to. Kessler and Froch went toe to toe with each, believe me they will not be bothered by GGG's power and thats when skill set comes into question. What I'm saying is that GGG style of boxing will be highly welcomed by the bigger guys at super middle weight. He does not punch any higher than Abraham, Miranda or Pavlik when they were middle weight and we all say how those guys power transferred when they moved up in weight.
Again Golokin is a good fighter, but hes not this all-time that his fans are trying to make him out to be.

 

Its a decent post but you gotta remember what did in Miranda, AA and Pavlik is their lack of boxing skills. Ggg is way better in that regard

 

I guess the question I have, is who is making GGG out to be an ATG?

Some people seem to interpret thinking GGG probably beats everyone at 160 right now, and maybe gives a very competitive fight with Ward and other SMW as calling him the next SRR or something. Then get offended by it.

I genuinely do not understand that line of thinking.

When someone "looks" as good as GGG, its natural to want to see them in more and bigger fights. Maybe he falls short vs Jr, and we find out he is good but not all that. Maybe he beats up Jr , and then goes on to fight a decent but losing fight with Ward and we find out he is elite but not the best. Maybe 6 years from now he is 46-0 with 40KO and he really is an ATG. Who knows?

As far as current p4p being "defensive" fighters.. thats just today. That does not mean thats the only way to be the best. A better comparison for GGG would be Chavez Sr in his prime. He was also a pressure fighter with power, and like GGG he had good defense - he got hit some as well but lots of people only think of the old drunkard Chavez who just relied on his chin.

I think too many people want to put far too much weight on what Floyd does. If its not like Floyd is must be "wrong", seems to be what lots of people get at. Especially those who hate on offensive fighters. But I consider Floyd just a blip on the overall map of the history of boxing. What he does works for him, but he is not some objective standard by which to judge.

 

GGG becomes overrated when his fans start making polls and claiming that he would have beaten Marvin Hagler, Bernard Hopkins, and would Shattered Roy Jones Jr's "china chin". Some months back, his fans were claiming how ward was gonna dock him until Ward showed interest in fighting him. All we've been hearing from his fans is how no one wants to fight him and everyone is scared to get in the ring with him. You have people comparing his punching power to Julian Jackson when in reality GGG breaks opponents down with sheer volume.

 

Huh. So someone on a forum somewhere says something at some point, and so some others feel a need to bounce around threads for months trashin the guy? It obviously happens, but I cannot begin to understand that mindset.

Ive said it before, but your understanding of the Ward situation is a bit off - noone is ducking anyone there. They will fight eventually, but Ward is not fighting anyone right now. And GGG was avoided by just about everyone until he broke the 1m ratings barrier on HBO and started drawing HBO Championship Boxing level purses. People complain about HBO pushing him, and his not having "fought hardly anyone" but thats the way the game often works. Until a network backs you with money, getting other monetarily backed people in the ring is hard.

You can get an oddball situation where a dark horse that noone knows about comes along and is underestimated, overlooked, and springs an upset. But with 350am fights , all the insiders and matchmakers knew exactly who he was.

As far as breaking opponents down through volume, yeah he punished the crap out of Stevens that way - but that was the odd one out of the bunch.

 

Exactly. This is why people pick GGG over guys like AA and Pavlik. It's not difficult to understand.

 

In the era of defensive (I would rather call them passive) fighters topping p4p ranks it's easy to bash on offensive fighters as the ones with a bad D. And they have a point, many offensive fighters nowadays get tagged like Manny and get "exposed" like Matthysse, while Floyd, Ward, and Rigo keep winning.

What people fail to distinguish is there are certain fighters like GGG, who are aggressive and are defensively responsible. He polished his D while conquering the amateurs trophies, and he polished his attack in the pros. The guy is thinking in the ring, he is a natural counter puncher, but he selected to be a frontfoot counter puncher. Who else in the modern era has that style of fight? It's unpopular, underground, people get brainwashed that the only effective counter punching is at the backfoot.
Want facts? One of the examples: look how he throws his jab while catching the opponent's jab with his right. He does it all the fcuking time, it's a beauty of the sport of boxing, and why people don't appreciate these small classy things, I don't get it...

 

Dude what d are you talking about, GGG is no defensive fighter. Stevenson tagged him a few time when the fought. Enough with this amateur record, this is the pro game. There is no head gear involved. you said "look how he throws his jab while catching the opponent's jab with his right" like its something new that GGG just brought to the game. Isn't that one of the basic defensive fundamentals they teach at gym to catch a job with either hand depending on your stance or move you head to the side.:roll: You said "he is a natural counter puncher, but he selected to be a frontfoot counter puncher. Who else in the modern era has that style of fight?" The Front foot counter punching was employed by Ward against Froch, so try again.

 

Not agreeing with what he's saying, but just because someone gets tagged a few times means they're not a defensive fighter?

 

Sure every fighter gets tagged a few times. So, answer this question is GGG a defensive fighter?

 

Did I say GGG is a defensive fighter? I said he is defensively responsible. You know the difference, you seem smart enough to differentiate.
Stevens, not Stevenson, dude. Know to learn boxing and names of boxers in the ring?
Did I say GGG never gets tagged? He is a frontfoot fighter - you tend to get hit more when you are being aggressive. It's only logical - it's easier to be defensive while being passive.

Basic defensive fundamental yet Manny, Matthysse, Provo lack it when they need it. Agree or not? This is a very important question for you to answer because by answering it you will either bash your argument or expose those famous fighers on lack of basic as you say boxing.
And back to my question: why is it so difficult to appreciate these little things?

You mean frontfoot hugger? Counter punch/hug/control/release-punch. Without a doubt, this style works for Ward, and props to him as I value him highly. Yet, it's different to GGG's control who keeps his opponents mid- range (with his jab) to throw his hooks.