GGG vs James TONEY @ 160lb

No, but again: What if he'd have had Toney's schedule of fighting once every 1-2 months, fighting different styles, in a mix of title fights and keep busy fights, that included facing elite opposition?

 

That's a fair enough observation, and if GG had been in the ring that night, he could have replicated Tiberi's performance. But again, you could watch some of Eubank's struggles and predict an easy win for GG. When in reality, a fight with Eubank at his absolute best, would have been a very tough fight.

Whilst we can't ignore his fights against Williams and Tiberi etc, you also have to look at his best performances too. For example, look how sharp and motivated he was against Iran Barkley. So you've also got to look at him on his best nights too. You need a balance.

I'm sure that GG was better than some of the guys that Ray Robinson lost to. But it shouldn't mean that he should have been favoured over the best versions of Ray.

 

Again: You can't keep focusing on this alone.

Sanderline Williams and Dave Tiberi weren't as good as Micheal Nunn, Reggie Johnson and Mike McCallum etc.

How was Toney able to beat them?

Whilst it's possible that GG could have beat the version of Toney from your video, you've also got to envisage GG fighting the version of Toney who beat the likes of Barkley, when he was fired up, on his A game.

Although you have to note these kinds of performances, in a fantasy fight, you don't put up the best version of one guy vs the worst version of the other.

 

This is a great post.

I can envisage both guys winning.

We have to be realistic and say that James may have underestimated him and not respected him enough to have been 100%. I still can't believe that he was so out of shape when he signed to fight Roy. But in a fantasy fight, I always have to assume that each guy is at his absolute best.

 

Yes. Golovkin via a SD of some kind would be my bet.

I don't think much of Barkely, especially that version, but it's like Williams/Ali, it's Toney's best performance. He just looked better at Super Middle than he did at 160.

Well like you said his best performance was against Barkley, which wasn't at MW.

The thing with Toney is he was never a dominant force in any weight class. But he was able to navigate up to different weights and find favorable match ups that played into his favor. If that sounds like a sideways compliment, not intended, that's just how I would describe his unusual career.

No, I don't see a schooling or knockout. This would be a hard close fight but I lean towards the more dominant MW. Now if Toney dragged Golovkin up to Super Middle or something, I think the scales tip in his favor.

Given youre a 90s man..do you recall the Tyson vs De La Hoya talk? hahaha.

 

I would pick Golovkin on a close UD.

In that case it's relevant in that Tiberi applied educated pressure and forced Toney into a phone booth fight.

At MW, he seemed to struggle with top guys as well as not so top guys like Tiberi and Sanderline.

 

That wasn't easy, that was a war.

Nah..

 

GG was a more dominant MW than Toney. But look who they fought against, and how often they fought/fight.

Could GG have dominated a division containing the likes of: McCallum, Johnson and Nunn etc, fighting every few months? We don't know.

Could Toney have dominated the current MW division containing the likes of: Jacobs, Murray and Lemieux etc, only fighting 2-3 times per year? I'm going to say yes, most definitely.

If you had a time machine and they traded places, Toney could appear to be much more dominant.

 

He did struggle with the top guys as well. But they were great fighters and he was fighting every few months.

GG has just had a hard night against Jacobs after a 5/6 month break.

 

Off-topic: that's how I feel about Cotto, and it's not really a compliment. I admit he's a great fighter, but a bit overrated I think. Anyone with me? Or am I being unfair to him?

Thanks for answering, we'll probably never agree completely but it was good to discuss it, and I can respect your position especially since you are willing to defend it logically and calmly.

Have seen some of that too haha. But not that much, to be honest, when Tyson was prime or close to prime I was a toddler, and I was still a bit too young to remember a lot of ODLH's career. I just love boxing so have studied (re-watched mostly) the great fighters of the past.

 

It might've been a war but Jirov got handled

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of G but Toney has got the goods if you're talking Toney on a good night. Let's see a couple of elites man up and get in there with G and see what happens, but based just on the eye test my money is on lights out

 

Well said, friendo.

 

I actually said same thing about Cotto not to long ago, regarding how weight class jumping in contemporary times is in large part tactical moves to find winnable high reward fights. Cotto left welter because he had no hope of beating Pacman and Foreman had a major title in the next division up. Then he moved to MW because he couldn't beat Mayweather, Trout..etc. but a vulnerable Martinez had a major title in the next division up.

And thank you. You are the first person to disagree with me in a while that didn't try to flame me into silence.

I got to witness most of Tyson's career and all of Oscars. It's crazy how popular and well known they were in contrast to today's fighters. But casuals just didn't seem to grasp the concept they were in different weight classes lol

 

I was replying to the comment that "Toney could almost read a book while dealing with a pressure fighter up close" and a grueling war with Jirov doesn't fit that description.