GGG vs James Toney at 160.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Sep 19, 2020.


Who wins?

  1. Toney by decision.

  2. Toney by stoppage.

  3. Ladies and gentieman we have a draw!!!

  4. GGG by decision.

  5. GGG by stoppage.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

    7,115
    4,427
    Sportsbook:
    864
    Oct 11, 2017
    thanks george appreciate it
     
    escudo, Loudon and George Crowcroft like this.
  2. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,632
    3,412
    Sportsbook:
    900
    May 13, 2014
    If you need anything specific hit me up.
     
    Loudon, George Crowcroft and Dance84 like this.
  3. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

    7,115
    4,427
    Sportsbook:
    864
    Oct 11, 2017
    will do
     
    escudo likes this.
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    34,476
    4,305
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    I will be more than happy to answer these questions.

    Just answer my last question first.

    In his prime, did GG fight anyone as good as Mike McCallum?

    Before you say anything, you have not already answered it.

    I don’t want to hear how you think that Canelo and Jacobs etc were better than Mike.

    I just want to know if you think that GG fought anyone as good as Mike in his prime.

    Yes or no.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007

    What your looking for it this, No GGG fight not fight anyone as good Mike in his prime and Toney didn't BEAT Mike in his prime either. The best that Toney fought at 160-168 was Roy Jones and it was a near shut out on two of the judges cards.

    IMO Canelo in his prime or Jacobs in his prime ( Whom we both agree GGG beat past his own prime ) were better than the 35 McCallum that was out his his prime, who was stiffer less conditioned, and visibly slower that Toney fought and drew with.

    Since Toney did not fight McCallum in his prime, why ask the question? McCallum at his best in his 20's, you can argue he was even with Canelo, but how can we be sure? You do realize Canelo is just 30, still in his prime with has many good years ahead of him. Suppose he beats Beterbiev? See my point? We'll have to wait and see.

    There's your answer, now please answer my questions, I have been patient.



    Please answer yes or no without any spin, tangent, or attempt to undermine the question. Surely you can do this. This should be easy.

    Question #1. Do you think GGG is a hall of fame bound fighter? Yes or No? Not only do I think he is. I also think he'll earn the first-ballot distinction as possibly the top vote-getter in his class.


    Question #2 I think both Toney and GGG are top 25 all-time middleweights. Do you agree, Yes or no?


    Question #3 Do you think Nunn or McCallum are top 25 all-time middleweights? Now be honest, and if the answer is yes for either, Produce a top 25 list to be examined. To help you case you need names for the list, you can use the IBRO at Poll, which voted on their top 20 middleweights with some honorable mention. I was a former member. Most current members shun the web forums by the way. A few do post here. Since the IBRO rarely votes on active fighters, GGG's name is not mentioned, but Toney, who retied did make the honorable mention coming in 25th place overall. Personally, I think Ketchel has no business being where he is, and Toney would beat some rated ahead of him. You may also use Rumsfled's top 15 poll at ESB.

    2https://
    This content is protected



    Question #4 Do you think Golovkin would beat the 24-11-0 Sanderline Williams? Williams entered having lost three consecutive bouts on points and with a record of 2-7 in his previous nine. Assume this is GGG's 22nd pro fight, same as Toney. Toney drew with Williams. Call KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss here for GGG.


    Quesiton #5. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision vs. Sosa who was then an 18-0 greenish fighter and finished a 39-4-2 KO'd 4 times? Yes or no. Call Ko, UD, SD, Draw, or loss for Golovkin.


    Question #6. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision, being knocked down in the process vs. a Ring Magazine top ten rated Reggie Johnson, or would Golovkin do better in your opinion? Call KO, UD, SD, Draw or loss for Golovkin


    Question #7 Do you think Golovkin would have to settle for a draw in his prime vs. a 35-year-old Mike McCallum? What's your call here, win, draw or loss. Keep in mind McCallum after this fight, never beat anyone good at middle or super middle and lost 3 more times. McCallum also said he was past his prime at this point, which video would attest to in from his fights years ago. Your call for Golovkin here is KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss


    Question #8. Do you think GGG in his prime with 7 weeks to prepare for Dave Tiberi, who also the same amount of time to prepare as would defeat Tiberi? Call KO, UD, Draw or loss, please. We both agree Toney should have lost this fight.


    Question #9. How would GGG do vs Roy Jones? Better than Toney or worse?. Would he be floored as Toney was? Your answer to this question is?

    The score cards on Jones vs Toney were:
    Judge: John Stewart 119-108 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Glen Hamada 117-110 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 in favor of Jones
    Unofficial AP scorecard: 119-107 Jones
    Essentially three cards say Jones up by 9 points, Jones uo by 9 points, and Jones up by 11 points.

    I think I'll stop here, I look forward to reading your replies.

    -M
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020 at 11:47 AM
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    18,310
    24,281
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    :lol: how on earth do you get through general life?
    :loel:
     
    dinovelvet likes this.
  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    3,556
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 9, 2010
    :lol: There are just no words...
     
    George Crowcroft and Loudon like this.
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    34,476
    4,305
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    You can post your questions as much as you want, they won’t be answered until you answer mine.

    Stop embarrassing yourself and answer my question.

    By your own admission, GG DID NOT FIGHT CANELO OR JACOBS IN HIS PRIME.

    That means that you cannot use their names.

    My question is specifically focusing on GG’s prime.

    By your own admission, GG’s last prime fight was the one against Dominic Wade.

    So GG didn’t fight Brook, Jacobs or Canelo in his prime.

    Answer the question.

    In his prime, did GG fight any opponent as good as the versions of Mike McCallum who Toney fought?

    Yes or No?
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    HAHAHA,I am talking about Toney in his prime years fanboy, excuses DO NOT apply. You might as well excuse all of Toney's losses while you are at it. :nonono:nonono:nonono
     
  10. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,268
    2,409
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 14, 2009
    Hahahahaha The thread is about Toney AT HIS BEST.
    60 pages and you still do not get it,You are in the wrong thread my friend !!!
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    In your prime you are at you best unless inured or severely ill? Got it? We might as well say Toney's opponents were not at their best just because. In fact McCallum was past his prime, fighting Toney in his and they drew. No more replies, I'm waiting for Loudon to reply to my questions.

    See ya fan boy:D
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    Why Can't I use their names, if we won those fights?

    Beating a good fighter past your prime proves something. In boxing you best opponents don't have to be in your prime. I take it you agree with that and understand.

    Conversely drawing with a much older fighter while when the other fighter in his prime is not impressive.

    I answered the McCallum question many times.

    1 ) Toney didn't fight a prime McCallum so your point is moot.

    2 ) No in prime GGG did not fight anyone as good as McCallum, ( not all his fault ) but past his prime you can argue he did, and we both agree beat Canelo Is this clear by now?

    3 ) Canelo could very well prove to be better than McCallum in his prime. He is still in his prime. You'll have to wait and see.

    Now can you answer my questions? Ready set go!


    Please answer yes or no without any spin, tangent, or attempt to undermine the question. Surely you can do this. This should be easy.

    Question #1. Do you think GGG is a hall of fame bound fighter? Yes or No? Not only do I think he is. I also think he'll earn the first-ballot distinction as possibly the top vote-getter in his class.


    Question #2 I think both Toney and GGG are top 25 all-time middleweights. Do you agree, Yes or no?


    Question #3 Do you think Nunn or McCallum are top 25 all-time middleweights? Now be honest, and if the answer is yes for either, Produce a top 25 list to be examined. To help you case you need names for the list, you can use the IBRO at Poll, which voted on their top 20 middleweights with some honorable mention. I was a former member. Most current members shun the web forums by the way. A few do post here. Since the IBRO rarely votes on active fighters, GGG's name is not mentioned, but Toney, who retied did make the honorable mention coming in 25th place overall. Personally, I think Ketchel has no business being where he is, and Toney would beat some rated ahead of him. You may also use Rumsfled's top 15 poll at ESB.

    2https://
    This content is protected



    Question #4 Do you think Golovkin would beat the 24-11-0 Sanderline Williams? Williams entered having lost three consecutive bouts on points and with a record of 2-7 in his previous nine. Assume this is GGG's 22nd pro fight, same as Toney. Toney drew with Williams. Call KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss here for GGG.


    Quesiton #5. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision vs. Sosa who was then an 18-0 greenish fighter and finished a 39-4-2 KO'd 4 times? Yes or no. Call Ko, UD, SD, Draw, or loss for Golovkin.


    Question #6. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision, being knocked down in the process vs. a Ring Magazine top ten rated Reggie Johnson, or would Golovkin do better in your opinion? Call KO, UD, SD, Draw or loss for Golovkin


    Question #7 Do you think Golovkin would have to settle for a draw in his prime vs. a 35-year-old Mike McCallum? What's your call here, win, draw or loss. Keep in mind McCallum after this fight, never beat anyone good at middle or super middle and lost 3 more times. McCallum also said he was past his prime at this point, which video would attest to in from his fights years ago. Your call for Golovkin here is KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss


    Question #8. Do you think GGG in his prime with 7 weeks to prepare for Dave Tiberi, who also the same amount of time to prepare as would defeat Tiberi? Call KO, UD, Draw or loss, please. We both agree Toney should have lost this fight.


    Question #9. How would GGG do vs Roy Jones? Better than Toney or worse?. Would he be floored as Toney was? Your answer to this question is?

    The score cards on Jones vs Toney were:
    Judge: John Stewart 119-108 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Glen Hamada 117-110 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 in favor of Jones
    Unofficial AP scorecard: 119-107 Jones
    Essentially three cards say Jones up by 9 points, Jones uo by 9 points, and Jones up by 11 points.

    I think I'll stop here, I look forward to reading your replies.

    -M
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    18,310
    24,281
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    Yes, he is for sure. Although if he retires same year as Pacquiao he has no chance as the number one vote-getter.
    No on both counts.
    Nope.
    Yeah, but it wouldn't be a pushover.
    A 8-4 deciosn with a KD sounds about how GGG would do. Not adverse to a late stoppage pick, though.
    GGG SD12, he doesn't go down.
    No, he'd lose.
    He'd KO him.
    Worse. At 168, not only does he lose every round by embarrassing margins, he gets stopped as well.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    While I guess legendary fighter like Fitzsimmons in this narrow point of view didn't;t fight anyone as good in his prime. Your, aim is to cut GGGs resume and better wins in half.

    Hopkins must have missed on own lots of quality wins in this prime to by your standard.

    And Archie Moore. The beat goes on.

    I see one question mark asked to me which I have answered many times. To quote you, " Did GG ever fight anyone as good as McCallum in his prime?"

    Short answer no. GGG did not fight anyone as good as McCallum in his prime, but you can argue he did outside his prime. You have yrru answer.

    I'm glad you're happy to answer your 9 questions as honestly as you can. You can start now.


    >>>Please answer yes or no without any spin, tangent, or attempt to undermine the question. Surely you can do this. This should be easy.

    Question #1. Do you think GGG is a hall of fame bound fighter? Yes or No? Not only do I think he is. I also think he'll earn the first-ballot distinction as possibly the top vote-getter in his class.


    Question #2 I think both Toney and GGG are top 25 all-time middleweights. Do you agree, Yes or no?


    Question #3 Do you think Nunn or McCallum are top 25 all-time middleweights? Now be honest, and if the answer is yes for either, Produce a top 25 list to be examined. To help you case you need names for the list, you can use the IBRO at Poll, which voted on their top 20 middleweights with some honorable mention. I was a former member. Most current members shun the web forums by the way. A few do post here. Since the IBRO rarely votes on active fighters, GGG's name is not mentioned, but Toney, who retied did make the honorable mention coming in 25th place overall. Personally, I think Ketchel has no business being where he is, and Toney would beat some rated ahead of him. You may also use Rumsfled's top 15 poll at ESB.

    2https://
    This content is protected



    Question #4 Do you think Golovkin would beat the 24-11-0 Sanderline Williams? Williams entered having lost three consecutive bouts on points and with a record of 2-7 in his previous nine. Assume this is GGG's 22nd pro fight, same as Toney. Toney drew with Williams. Call KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss here for GGG.


    Quesiton #5. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision vs. Sosa who was then an 18-0 greenish fighter and finished a 39-4-2 KO'd 4 times? Yes or no. Call Ko, UD, SD, Draw, or loss for Golovkin.


    Question #6. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision, being knocked down in the process vs. a Ring Magazine top ten rated Reggie Johnson, or would Golovkin do better in your opinion? Call KO, UD, SD, Draw or loss for Golovkin


    Question #7 Do you think Golovkin would have to settle for a draw in his prime vs. a 35-year-old Mike McCallum? What's your call here, win, draw or loss. Keep in mind McCallum after this fight, never beat anyone good at middle or super middle and lost 3 more times. McCallum also said he was past his prime at this point, which video would attest to in from his fights years ago. Your call for Golovkin here is KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss


    Question #8. Do you think GGG in his prime with 7 weeks to prepare for Dave Tiberi, who also the same amount of time to prepare as would defeat Tiberi? Call KO, UD, Draw or loss, please. We both agree Toney should have lost this fight.


    Question #9. How would GGG do vs Roy Jones? Better than Toney or worse?. Would he be floored as Toney was? Your answer to this question is?

    The score cards on Jones vs Toney were:
    Judge: John Stewart 119-108 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Glen Hamada 117-110 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 in favor of Jones
    Unofficial AP scorecard: 119-107 Jones
    Essentially three cards say Jones up by 9 points, Jones uo by 9 points, and Jones up by 11 points.
     
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    18,310
    24,281
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    Found it. @Mendoza

    #1. Harry Greb
    #2. Sugar Ray Robinson
    #3. Carlos Monzon
    #4. Marvin Hagler
    #5. Bernard Hopkins
    #6. Bob Fitzsimmons
    #7. Dick Tiger
    #8. Freddie Steele
    #9. Charley Burley
    #10. Holman Williams
    #11. Jake LaMotta
    #12. Teddy Yarosz
    #13. Frank Klaus
    #14. Stanley Ketchel
    #15. Mike Gibbons
    #16. Leo Houck
    #17. Joey Giardello
    #18. Tommy Gibbons
    #19. Lloyd Marshall
    #20 Emile Griffith
    #21. Mike O'Dowd
    #22. Ken Overlin
    #23. Bert Lytell
    #24. Tony Zale
    #25. Gene Fullmer

    HMs: James Toney, Mickey Walker, Lou Brouillard, Fred Apostli, Tiger Flowers, Billy Papke, Mike McCallum.
     
    Loudon likes this.