GGG vs James Toney at 160.

The fact that you still bring up the Tiberi fight after 80 pages is so dishonest on your part.The thread is about the best version of Toney.Obviously, your arguments are not strong enough to conduct an honest debate.

 

I'm not sure Mendoza understands that Roy's style was literally built, from the amateurs, around not using the jab.

Due to most of the top amateurs being taught to work everything off the jab, when someone doesn't jab with, and revolves his while style around quickly countering their jab with lead rights, it really messed them up. This was Jones' style. He set traps, he broke rules and rhythms, and he didn't comply. He kept it as pro, and it worked damn ****ing well for him.

Vs Toney, he knew James was looking to counter his right hand, and so he didn't throw much, specialising in quick hooks that James couldn't see coming. His jab was more of a pawing feint, rather than an authoritative ramrod.

 

It is a good fight? I'll score it, if so.

 

Right, Roy was not looking to do any serious business with the jab.

 

Nah, don't watch it.

 

I've seen a couple tbf. Do you watch Boxing Life Stories? Lots of big names on there, some bloody good interviews.

 

I got in around Carl Thompson. Been back and listened to a few Manchester guys though.

 

Bujia,

It’s a fantasy fight where you’re speculating on how you think they’re styles would have meshed etc. But okay. I’ve no problem with what you’ve said. But then at least choose a version of Toney where you know he was motivated and fully fit etc.

He drew with McCallum, with some people thinking that McCallum should have won. And I’ve no issue with that. But then choose that version of him. Because even if you think that Mike won, at least you’re picking a version of Toney who was motivated. Him and Bill Miller had huge respect for Mike. So he was up for the fight and he fought to his full capabilities. He was sharp.

Despite being in his prime for Tiberi, we know that he wasn’t at his best. We know that he was unmotivated. Again, he’d just fought McCallum 7 weeks earlier, where it was his 5th fight in just 9 months. Now he lost that fight to Tiberi. And he admits it. Tiberi was the better man on the night. But he wasn’t at his best. And that isn’t an excuse. He was unmotivated, and Jackie Kallen says he had leg cramps and that he went to the hospital after the fight for dehydration.

Now you either believe he wasn’t at his best or you don’t. It’s up to you. But if you do think that he was at his best and he just lost because Tiberi was better than what he was, then I want to know either from you or anyone else, how he was able to beat all of the other very good-great fighters that he fought. Now nobody is a bigger advocate than me of the old adage: Styles make fights. But if he gave his best against Tiberi who was a C class fighter, then it wouldn’t have been possible to have beaten the guys who he did beat. It’s illogical.

So as far as I’m concerned, choosing the versions of Toney who fought Tiberi or Williams just on the grounds that they happened during his prime, is completely ignorant.

He wasn’t at his best for Williams where he was literally fighting every 4 weeks

This has happened to many other fighters throughout the years.

Billy Joe Saunders was 27-28 when he was lucky not to lose to a European level fighter called Artur Akavov.

Many people think that he lost that fight. And that’s because he was unmotivated where he just went through the motions. Yet when he’s motivated and sharp, we can see how good he is. You can watch the fights against Andy Lee and David Lemieux etc. And it wasn’t a stylistic issue with the opponent which was the issue, it was a psychological issue with himself.

Mike Tyson was in his prime against James Douglas. But he wasn’t at his best. And nobody can dispute that. Even if you truly believe that Douglas would have beaten any version of Mike, you cannot claim that Mike was at his best in Tokyo, on the grounds that he was in his prime. Because we know that he was overweight. We know that he hardly did any roadwork. We know that he slept around. We know that he got bashed up by Greg Page in sparring and that he gassed earlier in the fight.

So if you were picking Mike in a fantastic fight thread, you’d never choose that version of him.

It also depends how you scored GG’s fights. But for me, it’s not enough.

Okay. But you’re dismissing the Tiberi and Williams performances, by just noting that he was in his prime when they happened. You won’t allow for the fact that they weren’t the best versions of him.

I’ve not dismissed anything. You can say that Reggie and Mike beat him. I would never argue with you if you did. They were extremely tough stylistic match ups for him. But fighting 5 times in 9 months has to have an effect.

Yes, Toney was very unprofessional at times. He was the MW version of Riddick Bowe.

Definitely the first fight. And I hate how Oscar delayed the fights for as long as possible.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to here.

Fair enough. But then again, just put forward a version of him who was sharp. Again, even if you had him losing to Reggie and Mike, we know that he gave his all in those fights. Again, picking a version where you knowingly knew that he wasn’t at his best would be silly.

I’ve said on numerous occasions that I think that Billy Joe Saunders at his best could give Canelo huge issues. Yet if you saw the Akavov fight or his last one at SMW, you’d want me sectioned.

Yeah, I can’t see many people having an issue with that.

Fair enough. I think it would have been a great fight. And honestly, if you’ve read the thread, I have no issue with people picking GG. Just as long as they give me something other than: “GG would have beaten him, because he lost and struggled with low level fighters, whereas GG didn’t.”

I can’t abide that casual fan logic.

GG does have a great jab. But he’s got a small reach and he’s not particularly fast. I also think that Toney would have lured him into his type of fight.

 

This is going to 100 pages.

Trust me.

The dream team are on fine form, and I’ll be happy to give them both a slapping whilever I have the free time.