I knew it would run pretty hot Sal but this? Jebus. It's keep a few people occupied and amused that's for sure.
When you have numbskulls of Loudon's calibre slithering around, is it any wonder? He could turn a thread about the quality of James Toney's garbage cans into a 1000 page thread.
Oh yes I did. I remember watching Toney vs Tiberi, it was on free TV. I watched and scored Toney vs McCallum recently, and probably have a fresher memory than you do on that fight. Here, I made a place for your excuses ______________________________________________
He was in Toney's face and applied pressure. Toney fanboys might say he was down vs. Nunn ( 6-7 round is you want to score it with me ) but his pressure caught up to Nunn and he got into his head. Okay, but Tiberi doesn't get the same credit for pressuring Toney? Tiberi took the fight on short notice! And Toney had the judges, two of which were not licenses to judge in the state of NJ, and a Ref who quickly called a low blow point deduction when Toney was also landing below the belt in the same round Double standard. It was a robbery. I think Toney punked out va Roy Jones, and wasn't willing to risk what he needs to win way down on points because Jones hit harder than Nunn.
- The Nunn KO is better than anything on GGG's record !! He broke Nunn down. I am looking at GGG's record and see his best win is a disputed win over B-level fighter Jacobs. You have the nerve to critizise the Nunn win, when GGG is 1-1-1 against his only quality opposition. - Toney beat Tiberi.It was not a robbery but a close fight that could have gone either way: https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/james-toney-vs-dave-tiberi. Toney was not at his best for Tiberi evidenced by the fact that he beat pressure fighter of higher caliber. (Barkley, Williams, Jirov). Your whole point about Tiberi is dishonest and do not fit in this thread. It is not even worth addressing because it is so honest.
BCS8, I’ve already told you on numerous occasions that Tiberi beat Toney. Toney himself admits that he lost. I’ve also told you that I don’t mind if you had Johnson or McCallum beating him. Again, you have completely missed the point. I haven’t got an issue with the official scores for the Nunn fight. The issue I have is with YOUR own score. I’ve already told you that I was only debating your own score of the fight. So why would you post the official cards again? Yes, you were being generous. But you don’t give a guy 4 rounds out of 10 if he’s been schooled throughout the entire fight. You typed a load of nonsense but aren’t man enough to admit it. So: You say that you’ve watched the fight. I then tell you that Toney was way down on the cards by the half way point, but that he kept pressuring him and attacking him to the body, before eventually slowing him down and stopping him. Yet all you could muster was: Cool story bro. All you are doing is just admitting to everyone that you’ve never seen the fight. You can’t refute or give a proper response to any of my points. But you haven’t said anything. You won’t discuss any specifics of the fight. I’m asking you straight, why won’t you give him credit? Give me a proper answer. You obviously don’t know anything about the guy. WTF? I haven’t said that I think Toney would have taken GG out. I have said that I can envisage both of them winning, but if they were at their best, I’d have to take Toney because he was more proven. I could absolutely see GG winning. I just couldn’t have favoured him. Regarding Toney being a novice, he was considered a novice AT THE TIME back in 1991. Nunn was a top 3, P4P fighter, whereas Toney was respected but still unproven at the highest level. Yet that obviously CHANGED when he beat Nunn and Reggie, before then fighting McCallum twice. Again, why can’t you give Toney credit for the win? Do you not give fighters credit for winning after struggling? Is it some sort of specific criteria that you have? You have proven once again that you are incapable of debating. I’ve given you a chance, but you can’t back up any of your points.
BCS8, It’s you who’s the fan boy. His reputation doesn’t hang on close decisions at all. He’s had a great career. Why would GG’s opponents be more highly regarded? They’d still have mixed in the same company where they reached their ceiling. We know that by looking at who else they’ve fought. None of them would ever have been regarded as elite fighters at any stages of their careers, whether they’d have fought GG or not. Guys like Lemieux, Macklin, Rubio and Geale etc, would always have been non elite fighters. Yes, Martin Murray was desperately unlucky. As I’ve said, I’m a big fan of Murray’s. And he was desperately unlucky to have lost in Argentina to Martinez. But we know that Martinez was gone at that point. He should never have fought Cotto. His knees had gone at that point. Abraham and Sturm aren’t elite fighters either. Even if Murray had won, he wouldn’t be classed by anyone as being elite. Take a look at his whole career. It’s nothing to do with being a fanboy and Toney beating them. They were elite level fighters with elite skills. If you can’t see that Mike McCallum was a better fighter than the likes of Geale, Murray and Macklin etc, then you need to go and follow a different sport. McCallum beat: Julian Jackson, Donald Curry, Sumbu Kalambay, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham and in your opinion, James Toney. Tell me what Rubio, Geale, Lemieux and Jacobs have done in comparison?? I’ll wait. Tell me why. I’ve seen all of Jacobs’ fights. I like Danny Jacobs. But what has he done for you to think that he’d have crushed Mike McCallum? He had an early set back with the Pirog defeat, before then coming back and beating Mora and Truax, as well as scoring a great early win over Quillin. Then afterwards, he gave a past prime GG a tough fight, before losing to Canelo and beating Chavez. His best wins have been against Quillin and Chavez. So tell me why you think he’d have crushed a guy who you think beat James Toney? Explain it to me. I don’t mind anybody talking about other weight classes as long as it’s relevant to the debate. I was just pointing out that you was upset with another member doing it, whilst you were doing it at the same time. So I’ll ask you again: Why do you think that Jacobs would have crushed McCallum at 35, who in your opinion beat James Toney, when nobody else ever crushed him? Why could Jacobs have done it when he’s never beat anyone as good as McCallum in his entire career, when a prime Roy Jones couldn’t do it when McCallum was 40 years old and 2 divisions higher? Explain it to me. Nothing you have typed is logical. That IS THE VERSION of McCallum who fought Toney. McCallum had just recently beaten Collins, Kalambay and Watson, just prior to fighting Toney. No. I give breakdowns. I discuss specifics. You’re the guy who responds with: Opinion An emoji “Cool story bro” This is what I’ve been asking you. You say that GG is better than Toney and McCallum, by trying to debate on stats, where you say that Toney and Mike lost to more fighters etc, at different weights. It has zero relevance to MW, yet you and Mendoza have used it as your criteria for 80 pages. I have asked you 3 questions, yet this is all you could respond with? Again, who did GG beat that had the technical skills of Sumbu Kalambay? Who did he beat who was comparable to Herol Graham? Which fighter has he beaten who was better than the version of Toney who McCallum fought? They’re 3 simple questions. If you can’t give me an answer, then you are just admitting that the answer for each question is: NOBODY. Another nothing answer because you can’t refute what I’ve said. Again, GG never beat anyone as good as Nunn or McCallum in his prime. (which Mendoza finally admitted to) Again, when he was past prime, he struggled with Jacobs, Canelo and Derev. Now if you don’t agree, then come back and refute what I’ve said. If you are unable to do so, then you’re obviously admitting that what I’ve said is right.
Well of course you did. You didn’t see the McCallum and Johnson fights, but you DEFINITELY saw the Tiberi one.
Tiberi gets HUGE credit for pressuring Toney and giving him a great fight. I’m only sad that he didn’t get the official win, and that he couldn’t reach a compromise on the terms for a rematch. We’re over 70 pages in and you still don’t get it. I don’t care if you think that Tiberi won. I think that Tiberi won. The only issue I have, is that you’re claiming that Toney was at his best for the fight, when that clearly wasn’t the case. Now I have answered every one of your questions, and you’re welcome to ask me some more. But there is a question of mine which so far you have refused to answer. I have kept asking and kept asking but you will not give me a response. If you think that Toney was at his best against Dave Tiberi, then please explain how he was able to beat all of his other opponents? Again, I have no issue with you thinking that Tiberi won. Again, I have no issue with you thinking that GG could have beaten Toney. But give me something more substantial than: “GG would have beaten Toney, because he lost to Tiberi and struggled with Williams” Because that’s the sort of comment which you’d find on social media, from a casual fan who only watches boxing once a year.
If you are talking about love, THAT is correct. Toney struggle in many matches, that's why I thinK GGG beat him.
Yeah. I just have no answer to those emojis. Just when I think I’m doing well, he drops one of those smiley faces on me. Brutal.
