Giant Killers of the past vs today's top 25

Louis and Tyson are the only 2 I see as possibly beating the Klits. Rocky would be too small and Dempsey not good enough.

If you put Rocky on steroids and he came in around 210-220lbs, I'd give him a shot at the Klits though, a pressure fighter could give them problems because neither fight well going backwards

 

That would just be excess weight. That would hinder The Rock more than being smaller and at his optimum for output IMO.

He has a chance against Vitali just because he's so ****, Wlad would get him out of there at some point I imagine.

 

Thanks for being in my corner on this one Burt. Always good to hear from you. I'm sure you like myself feel that a lot of the old timers are often underappreciated and thier abilities downplayed. I was once a follower of that mindset....but not anymore.

 

- He didn't duck Wills. If you're going to cry at least correctly use Greb who was the only legit one.

- You realize Louis was more than a inch taller than Liston and basically the same weight in his prime....

 

JG, We are one in this state of mind. I ,who have seen so much of the history of boxing, truly believes that what I have read and witnessed ,
NEVER OCCURED to some posters on ESB. And I believe there is a clinical hatred of Jack Dempsey for example that defy's logic and common sense.
Dempsey ,who was held in such high esteem as a great H2H fighter all my life is today targeted today for such scorn , that I feel truly feel that I
might say "the hell with defending him",as today's haters and distortionists
can never be fair to his legacy.
They believe that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes a truth. 1Dempsey DID sign to fight Harry Wills,for a bout that the promotor Fitzpatrick had to cancel because he did not have the funds. There is photos of that signing.
2 -Tex Rickard and the NY State Commission REFUSED to match Wills against Dempsey for fear of the terrible race riots following the Johnson/ Jeffries bout in Reno. This is a fact. Dempsey was willing to meet Wills as reports of those days indicate.
3-Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette,and Sam McVey, were close to 40 years old during the Dempsey title reign and were no longer viable opponents,during the 1920s.
4-But these facts mean nothing to the Dempsey haters today.
5-It is a fact also that the Joe Louis braintrust AVOIDED many more
dangerous black contenders,during Louis's reign, but this fact is ignored
by today's close minded revisionists. I hold Joe Louis in the greatest esteem, but his handlers didn't give a money shot to some deserving
black contenders of the day.
6- Dempsey feared no man. They feared him. He was a product of his times
and he followed Jack Kearns advice, as Joe Louis followed the advice of Roxborough, Black, and Mike Jacobs, years later.
7-Dempsey employed many top sparring partners who were black.He fought
John Lester Johnson, also black in NY,and years later Dempsey took care of
Johnson's nursing home expenses before Johnson died.
Dempsey was a good man and fine gentleman respected by ALL during his long life, and he left a great legacy for boxing history,for any fair minded boxing fan...Take care jg.:good

 

You don't think he feared or avoided Greb?

 

I don't hate Dempsey and i don't dwell on his situation with Wills what i take into account when talking H2H is how they are on film and how they did against their opponents and the fact of the matter is the two giants Dempsey faced were shithouse. In fact Dempsey practically lost against Firpo who is literally the crudest fighter i've ever seen. I don't see how Dempsey could beat the Klits when they are larger than Firpo, stronger, longer reach, waaay more skilled, much better resume with Wlad punching harder and Vitali being more durable.

 

He sat on the heavyweight title so long people thought he had retired. Meanwhile he had the equivalent of a mandatory waiting in the wings for 6 or 7 years. If he really had wanted to fight Wills, it would have happened. And by the way, I still pick Dempsey to win.

Liston's insane reach made him able to fight like a man a few inches taller, in so far as using and controlling space. Prime for prime, he had a good 15 pounds on Louis, who fought his best right at or under 200.

 

V,there was no greater P4P fighter EVER than Harry Greb. That being said,Dempsey never hooked up with that "seven year itch" [as Harry was described], it is true. But Jack Kearns ,Dempsey's mgr felt that it would be a no win situation for Dempsey. If Dempsey won people would say "so what Greb was only a MW". Big Deal !. Why risk this match, Kearns believer ? Furthermore I have read that Harry Greb confided to a couple of sportswriters, saying "in a regular bout after 5-6 rounds Dempsey would KILL ME" ! This I think would VERY likely have happened, but Harry Greb feared no man alive and his share of the purse, would have been more than a year of weekly bouts. Gym fighting is one thing, but the 20 pound heavier prime Dempsey,almost as FAST, twice as strong would have been too much
for even the Pittsburgh Windmill...Cheers.

 

This is pure fantasy. With a 67" reach and his skeletal frame (narrow shoulders, stubby legs), he would look like a bowling ball with 30-40 more pounds. He would be inhibited with his bending at the waist which made him a more elusive target. His problematic back would not holdup with that surplus flesh. Against either of the Klits he would be murdered. He's simply not in the same division as those giants.

 

When most people talk about comparing a great fighter from an earlier period, to a great "big" fighter from a latter era, they are typically talking about larger men who have the complete package of size, skill, conditioning, athleticism and durability. Sure I can pull up countless examples where a much smaller guy defeated a much larger man who was of a journeyman level, but this is not what we're referring to. Mike Mike was around 6'10", 270 lbs, and regularly got beaten by bums who were half his size.. Doesn't mean that Rocky marciano would have done the same to Lennox Lewis.

 

Yeah, why is Liston classed by many as a 'super heavy'? What was he, 6'1-210lbs?

 

Ol' Sonny was a 'super heavy' in 1960 - some people are a bit behind teh times. :hat