Giant Killers

I think that desperation was a key factor in many of the giant killers of the past stepping up to the plate.

This was a period when even a champion was lucky if they could make enough money to suport them after their boxing career went down the tube.

It tended to focus minds a bit more!

 

I think a lot of it is that people seem to dismiss the idea of giant killing overall. Nobody really gave a **** back in the day about Greb or Walker tackling the big boys, but today people would think it's unsafe, expect the smaller guy to come in a certain weight, and expect the smaller guy to lose almost every time. I think that's part of the reason people's jaws drop at what Pacquiao and PBF have done, or Jones beating Ruiz(which really isn't that great of a win, per se).

also: the decline of infighting ability and rules letting you infight. People seem to think andre ward is satan.

 

I am not sure there have been many guys moving up and beating bigger guys. We only hear about the guys who succeed.

 

Andre Ward would school the **** out of Adamek.

 

That is another side of the coin.

Back in the day there were many fighters regarded as being great at their own weight, who just got creamed when they stepped up.

Jack Delaney for example.

 

The difference in weight between a top HW and a top MW, has grown from about 20lbs to about 70lbs, that's why it's much harder to do it now and you absolutely do need the extra strength that added muscle mass provides. And it's not just about punch power, its being drained in the clinches, not being able to block bigger mans punches, not being able to take their shots

MW back then were facing men who only had 20-30lbs on them, Fitz was only giving up what 15lbs to a none puncher against Corbett. Greb was giving up around 20lbs against the better HWs he faced. That's the sort of weight Holyfield gave up most the time against the better HWs he faced too

Jones Jr wanted to face Holyfield in 1999 but Holyfield lost to Lewis so that scuppered that fight and Lewis was just too big for Jones or any ex MW really. Jones-Holyfield would have been very interesting then, if Jones wins he probably faces Tyson ducking Lewis

 

Jones wouldn't have won that one IMO. I'd give him an okay chance against that Tyson though.

 

the best boxers are the ones fighting at their strongest natural weight. The klitchkos have an edge because they are genuine big guys that are not carrying too much extra weight.

The heavyweight class is distorted to such an extent that regardless of the height most of them are 30lb too heavy. remember bowe himself was once 216lb. george foreman was 209.

a 6'1'' hevayweight with 76'' reach and size 10 shoe is as likley to be 250lb as a 6'9''heavyweight with 84'' reach and size 15 shoe.

For about 50 years 6'1'' tall meant 200lb.

 

There is another side of the coin however.

It is much easier for smaller fighters to add bulk today.

Tommy Loughran had to fight Primo Carnera as little more than a light heavyweight, while today he could bulk up to 210lbs or more.

 

I would've loved to have seen Greb-Dempsey.

 

Lucian Bute vs David Haye....

Not unwinnable for Bute IMO.

 

Bute isn't really proven for my liking, can't see him winning the fight from the outside as he likes to sucker opponents in so Haye would just pick him off from range and well he lands doom and gloom

Now Andrew Ward being a better technical boxer, he stands a chance, Haye is rendered completely in effect inside and at mid range so if Ward gets inside and backs Haye up he could beat him upm plus Ward is slippery. Ward's stamina would also take Haye out of his comfort zone. I'd still lean towards Haye though

 

All the bulk added isn't always effective bulk, it needs to be added in the right areas and it usually isn't, thats why most fighters slow down and don't necessary increase power

 

I think he'd be able to hurt david with his left. definitely wouldn't be favored, i'd say 30/70 chance of winning. Ward i don't know. Does he have the speed or the size to compete here? He certainly has the skill.

BTW in that John L thread i wrote a big post about scotch and bourbon, you better have read that mess.