[GIF] Carnera KO Sharkey (Slow Mo)

I don't think that even Carnera's handlers would have dared to issue a threat against the life of the reigning heavyweight champion of the world.

That is something that would have seen them shut down very quickly if the FBI had got wind of it.

That leaves the possibilities that they might have offered him financial incentive, or that they had some sort of hold over him such as debts or compromise.

If the latter was the case, they would probably have tried to gain control of him, rather than induce him to take a dive.

This is a guy who already held the title remembers.

If Sharkey had somehow been induced to take a dive, he would almost certainly have been told what round he was going to lose in, or told to pick a round and stick with it.

The most likely scenario is that he would simply have gone out in the first to minimise the risks.

 

mcvey, post: Why? Ike Williams was a world champ he did business, so did Champ Jimmy Carter. Lloyd Marshall,Clarence Henry

Different times and more mob influence during their time. The mob was not as prevalent in Sharkey's time as it was in Williams, Carters, marshalls and Henry's time. None of them had the stature of Sharkey as a HW champion. See here is a perfect example of leaving out known relevant facts to make a point.

 

You don't discuss boxing ,you try and browbeat posters ,you talk ,"at them", not," with them".If they happen to hold a different opinion to yourself they are fools.Well there seems to be a lot of fools here.

 

Just a few Champions that were connected to gangsters during the 20's-40's
Baer
Braddock
Tunney
Battalino
Sharkey
Wilson
Miller
Carnera

 

Yes to you cos they agree with your stance, otherwise "off with their heads". Besides when I reply to your posts and not theirs, they more than likely read mine and then more than likely read my replies to you. So in essences I am killing two birds with one stone. Explaining where I stand on this discussion and .
Is that alright? Or is it against the rules?

 

They were at his training camp for the Carnera fight Sharkey was friendly with a few hoods and his manager Johnny Buckley had a bad rep.

 

They don't agree with my stance,they have objective minds of their own and make them up on the basis of the evidence presented ,in this case a clip that shows Sharkey falling to the floor but not what dropped him. You're developing an unhealthy obsession ,I hope you have someone to talk to about it.

 

That went with the territory back then.

Either way, you have to question whether a fighter, who already held the heavyweight title, would have given it up voluntarily.

On paper there is no reason why Sharkey could not have had half a dozen successful title defences.

 

We have the same questions marks over Sonny Liston v Clay/Ali do we not? Sharkey was on the way out ,the prospect of him making half a dozen successful title defences is so remote it is invisible!

 

Sonny Liston had already lost the title when I think him to have taken a dive.

That made it a much more sensible proposition.

Yes in hindsight Sharkey was on the way out, but this is with the benefit of hindsight.

His only loss in the last five years was the DQ against Schmeling.

He was very much a going concern as champion, with contenders like Levinsky, Hamas, and Loughran around.

 

Many think Liston took a dive in the first fight when he was the defending champion. Sharkey was very lucky to get by Schmeling who was still in the top contender when Sharkey fought Carnera, Baer was number 2,Risko who had already beaten Sharkey and Schaaf was number 6,and by 1934 Louis was number 9.
Within 18 months after losing to Carnera, Sharkey lost to both Loughran and Levinsky

The idea that Sharkey could have had half a dozen successful defences is neither supported by the facts nor his subsequent results.

 

I don't.

In hindsight yes, but there was no reason to think that at the time.

Most people at the time, would have thought that him and Schmeling were the top two in some order, and then you had the rest.

If you had been Sharkey's manager after he won the title, you would be thinking "let’s see how far we can go with this".

 

Knowing how lucky Sharkey was to get the verdict against Schmeling, and how inconsistant Jack was I would have thought, not very far!

 

"Primo carnera was six feet five and weighing around 260lb, had always been considered by experts to be only a mediocre boxer. The said he could not really punch, that he just sort of clubbed his opponents. In fact, his reach was much greater than any opponent, and the leverage that gave him enabled his punches to penetrate almost any defence. In contrast to the experts, I had always considered Carnera to be a technically sound boxer, so I was not in the least suprised to hear he had knocked Sharkey out in the sixth round to become the second European to win the world heavyweight title. Within the year he successfully defended the his title against Paulino. He did this in Italy in front of Mussolini." - Max Schmeling. Autobiography.

"But against Carnera you did hsve to be careful. For such a big man, he was deceptively fast. He didn't really punch his weight, but he was a very damaging puncher just the same" - Larry Gains autobiography. Page 107

"He was a good man and one whom the game treated very badly. I have watched the film of his fight with Max Baer and heard men laugh, as they saw the big Italian hit the canvas over and oVer again. They should have cheered instead. Baer was a terrific puncher and only a very brave man could have taken that sort of punishment and kept coming back the way Carnera did that night.


He of course came too late to the game...too late to learn the trade. It's true he was not a great champion. But remember he was the heavyweight champion of all the world. No one can take that away from him." - Larry Gains Autobiography page 108



Max Bear predicted Primo would beat Joe Louis! Here is a quote from Max Baer:

"On march 28th Max Baer came out in favour of Primo to win the fight. Max told the press that Primo would explode the meteoric rush of the young Louis. He acknowledged Joe might well knock Primo down but recalling his own fight with the tenacious Italian nine months earlier the champion predicted with his usual certainty that Primo would get back on his feet "I haven't forgot how many times he was down and up in my fight with him that I got dizzy keeping track of the knockdowns, and I wasn't fooling when I hit him either!" Max predicted that if primo was in the same condition as he was when he fought him then Primo would wear the young man from Detroit down."- Primo Carnera, the life and career of the heavyweight champion by Joseph S. Page.



"Carnera was a much better fighter than I gave him credit for. Of course there is a lot of controversy relative to his bouts but, be that as it may, the fellows a better fighter than given credit for.
Carnera's style and his reach, you've got to find a way to get to him, well I did that the first time. The second time I realised I'd just do the same thing again, but I didn't give him credit that he might improve. He handled me with ease. He picked me up bodily and placed me over near the ropes. Those arms were like limbs of a tree and, when he put them in front of him, there was nothing to hit." -Jack Sharkey.

 

He was doing that a lot in the sixth round anyway prior to the knockdown. Indeed, he was ducking down anyway throughout the fight. Given that Sharkey was taking some punishment throughout the sixth, and that Sharkey seemed to have slowed down a bit after carrying several of the previous rounds, it stands to reason that his attempt to weave might be a bit slower than it had been before.