[GIF] Foreman KO Cooney (Alternate Angle)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Sep 12, 2020.


  1. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Best Chin On ESB Full Member

    43,973
    1,952
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 20, 2008
    would have been interesting to see how Cooney’s career would have been different (if at all) had he been trained by Clancy or D’Amato instead of Victor Valle from the start.
     
  2. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY Todd Morgan Beamer (11/24/68 – 9/11/01) Lets roll! Full Member

    65,711
    27,568
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 29, 2012
    Easy to see that Cooney was poorly managed and could have achieved a lot more. That seems to be an unpopular view in classic for whatever reason but I think with better management and no booze problems he would have grabbed a world title or two at the very least.
     
  3. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Best Chin On ESB Full Member

    43,973
    1,952
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 20, 2008
    I read Gerry’s book that came out last year. D’Amato was his first choice but he claims they didn’t have a good first meeting. I think the Wacko Twins sabotaged it as D’Amato explicitly told Cooney he would have to be the Trainer and Manager which would have cut Rappaport and Jones out of the equation thus killing their chance at multi millions of dollars. Both D’Amato or Clancy wouldn’t have kept Gerry as inactive after his second year as a pro like Rappaport and Jones did. Cooney never came close to reaching his potential and while his management was to blame Gerry also shoulders some of the blame. I think the drinking problems would have always been an issue regardless of who the trainer was but Valle admitted he never confronted Gerry over it so as to not “hurt his feelings”. Other trainers wouldn’t have put up with it. After the Holmes loss Steward supposedly sent feelers out to Cooney to see if he wanted a change of trainers and it was rebuked. Probably for the best as I am not sure how Stewards style would have meshed with Cooney. I do think if Gerry was with either Clancy or D’Amato from the start things could have been slightly different. They would have not rushed the Holmes fight for one and let Gerry get more fights and experience under his belt. People on here like to **** on Cooney he wasn’t a bad fighter his biggest problems were himself (confidence and alcohol/drugs) and his idiot managers.
     
    UnleashtheFURY likes this.
  4. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY Todd Morgan Beamer (11/24/68 – 9/11/01) Lets roll! Full Member

    65,711
    27,568
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 29, 2012
    Sounds like a good read. I'll have to pick that one up after I've gone through some of my reading backlog. Did Cooney write it himself or with the aid of a ghostwriter?

    Agreed. Cooney gets way too much hate on here. I don't get it.
     
  5. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Best Chin On ESB Full Member

    43,973
    1,952
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 20, 2008
    Gerry had help of an author but the book took 4 or 5 years to complete so it was decently detailed. After reading it I do agree with the people on here that say he never really wanted to be champion and despite what he says I don’t think he ever wanted to be a fighter he was pushed into it. I think his goal in the Holmes fight was just to last the distance and when he lost just shrug his shoulders and say “see, I was good enough to go the distance”
    His game plan in the Holmes fight made no sense. He wasn’t ever going to outbox Larry and he didn’t really press for a KO even in the few times he had Larry hurt or stunned. After that he pretty much just sulked and became a celebrity fighter once every few years. Huge waste of potential.
     
  6. joebeadg

    joebeadg Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,755
    757
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 3, 2005
    never wanted to be champ? Just wanted to last the distance? Were you around when this was going on? He wanted to beat Holmes so bad.
     
  7. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Best Chin On ESB Full Member

    43,973
    1,952
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 20, 2008
    If you read the book it spells it all out. Yes, I do believe in the beginning of his career he wanted to be the champion but as he progressed through the ranks and the pressure mounted Gerry was constantly looking for a way out and a way to save face so to speak. Think of all the 'injuries' and canceled fights he had between 1980-1982. Gerry going the distance with Holmes in 1982 was his way to compromise with himself even if he lost. If he got KOed early it would have looked bad but if he lasted the distance he could simply say he was just beat by a better fighter and he tried. Gerry had a lot of mental demons from his childhood from his abusive domineering father who basically forced him to be a boxer. The alcohol was a way to self sabotage himself and also provide an excuse/cover if he were to lose. The book goes into great detail about Gerry and his self sabotaging behavior leading up to the Holmes fight.

    Here was a guy who was savagely KOing everyone he fought (even if they were a bit past prime etc.) and he shows up to the biggest fight of his life and tries to outbox one of the most skilled boxers the division has ever had? What kind of logic is that? Gerry's best chance was to put extreme pressure on Holmes the first 5 rounds and try to get him out of there. He didn't. Instead he followed Holmes around the ring and held back so he could "go the distance" if he needed to. In the corner after the 10th round Valle even told him "Gerry, you waited way to long with this guy" in the 10th round Cooney finally opened up and pressed Holmes but he was too far fatigued at that point for it to matter he should have been doing that in round one. The whole fight was a compromise for Gerry. He already had a lot of pressure on himself and he wasn't even the champion yet. Had he actually beat Holmes he would have had even more pressure on himself and he wouldn't have been able to handle it. The alcohol and partying was a way for Gerry to get away from the pressure of being champion and it also provided a cover for him if he lost. Valle said when they were in Palm Springs training for the Holmes fight he could smell alcohol on Gerry's breath from the night before in their morning training sessions. He did the same exact thing before the Spinks fight. Stayed out drinking just about every night in his training camp with his buddies he brought with him from Huntington.

    The book also goes into the whole Rappaport and Jones thing and how they both hated each other and Gerry was stuck in the middle etc. I just think had Gerry been with a different team his career could have been a little different. The confidence and drinking issues would have always been there but with better management it could have been mitigated a bit. Especially with D'Amato who was a master at psychology and building up mentally weak fighters plus he also knew how to move a fighter and keep them busy so they didn't have any time to party or get into trouble he kept them in the gym. With D'Amato managing him Cooney would have had 35 or 40 fights before he fought Holmes instead of 25. I think Valle was a competent trainer but he babied Cooney too much and let Gerry not show up to the gym and skip training far too often. I think Gerry did need a "father figure" older trainer with his personality but D'Amato and Clancy also fit that bill and would have been able to keep him busy and focused on Boxing which Valle wasn't able to do. The potential was there.
     
    The Morlocks likes this.
  8. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,246
    2,997
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 22, 2015
    I don't know how much difference it would've made.
    Cooney's biggest issues came from with in.
     
  9. elmaldito

    elmaldito Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,080
    2,322
    Sportsbook:
    79
    Jun 11, 2009
    would have loved to see foreman vs tyson at this stage.
     
  10. elmaldito

    elmaldito Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,080
    2,322
    Sportsbook:
    79
    Jun 11, 2009
    If by with in you mean long layoffs then yes
     
  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,246
    2,997
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 22, 2015
    Why did he have the long lay- offs?
     
  12. elmaldito

    elmaldito Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,080
    2,322
    Sportsbook:
    79
    Jun 11, 2009
    injuries
     
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,146
    5,946
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    George Foreman responds!
    This content is protected

     
    greynotsoold likes this.