[GIF] Marciano KO Mathews (Slow Mo)

That video just makes him look like total and utter trash. Rocky was just a pedestrian athlete. Slowing it down doesn't alter that view in the least. It has nothing to do with the size of his heart, his toughness, or commitment to his conditioning. Those are givens. He simply was not gifted with extraordinary athletic talent. He fought in a terrible era replete with dross and his few notable wins were (without exception) over far past prime fighters. Hardly surprising that he was the younger, prime fighter rather than the other way around, huh? Boxing has LONG suffered from a lack of apex talent pursuing the sport. That is why there are such intermittencies in its history between even modestly decent specimens or examples. When too few of the ablest pursue a sport its progression is minimized. The lack of depth in training and in competition results in less development and removes the same push to higher standards. Nevertheless, Rocky is just not an example of high end talent. Searching for something that is not evident is pointless unless you are his grandson or something. Rocky is unambiguously slow - unless your point of comparison is other 5'10" 185 lb Italian guys - perhaps he is average then. There is no mythology involved. He is not quick at all. His reflexes are unimpressive. His agility is dire.

Watching him fight Mathews (or many of his fights - excluding maybe seven - and some of those were mere novelties considering the opponent's ample age) is akin to watching basketball in the 1940s, among other things. If you really love basketball played BELOW the rim (and limited athletes), I guess you are truly a fan and can find merit in any type of competition. For many, there is only so much time (to apportion) and thus, there is simply no time to watch some men's softball league, a local bowling league, or Little League baseball games either (unless it is your own). Rocky fought in a fortunate time with rather fortunate circumstances and backing. His fame, charisma, and his appearances covering boxing in the early 60s was great. But, assessing his athletic qualities is not about liking or disliking one's personality or behavior. That is all irrelevant. He would not be a heavyweight today - in any shape or form. He would not even be a certainty to rule at cruiserweight either. Although, it can be asserted that the often long intermittencies of talent in professional boxing would give him some chances at various moments in the past fifty odd years or so - whatever that is worth.

Maybe comparing video between Rocky and Lebedev or Chakhkiev or Arslan or even Gassiev would be a better exercise if you desire to paint a clearer picture of his "speed" (or comparable speed). Find the right comparative and maybe it can make sense. When I was a kid we used to go watch Jerry Quarry (and Mike) fight. I still remember thinking these guys are just terrible athletes. And yet, some on this board retrospectively find merit in his limitations. You really wish for Marciano to be more than he was. Actually there is a lot to be said for having the backing, matchmaking, control, etc. to dictate the playing field or venue, the timing, and the involvement of others (i.e., commission, judges, refs, docs, etc.) in competition. Perhaps there is nothing more important in boxing (past and present). It is like having a handicap - and I don't mean that as a pejorative.

 

It's relative imo,he is slow compared to other men around his weight,physical stature ,and age , against Big George or Vitali he would look reasonably quick. Mathews was a hype job,very skillfully manipulated into a big pay day by Jack Hurley a brilliant ballyhoo artist.

 

Typical...

 

Does any credible boxing analyst agree with you that Marciano had:
"extraordinary dexterity,balance ,and agility?

imo. Marciano achieved what he did because he was ,as brave as any man that climbed through the ropes,had iron self discipline,determination, and self belief,and trained like a maniac,consequently none of his opponents were ever fitter or better prepared for war.

 

I do not think Marciano was especially slow in the overall scheme of things but he was slow compared to other greats. Dempsey and Louis, for example, were noticeably faster, with superior all-round skills, to boot.

As has already been suggested in this post, it is Rocky's attitude; courage, supreme conditioning, iron will and power that makes him great. Speed is not a facet, which jumps out at me, when discussing Rocky Marciano.

 

That's one way of looking at it. Another is to ask questions about his speed, in comparison to other more recent greats.

For example:

Do you think he was as fast as Frazier or Ali?
Did he have the speed of Holyfield?
Was he even as fast as Big George?

 

Nope.

 

Today's 240 lb 6'5 super heavyweights get their punches compared to a baseball bat swinging at 90 mph. Marciano had his punches compared to that of an armor piercing bullet.

 

The idea Rocky was slow, an amateur, all came from opponents such as Walcott. Joe was very open as to what he thought of Marciano prior to their bout. However watching the actually fight it's quite clear Walcott was very wrong. Joe is constantly looking for Rocky after making him miss but he is not there. Marcianos bobbibg and weaving ultra low crouch made him a difficult target. Fighting low and small is a lost art in the hwt ranks. It's extremely effective if done skillfully to negate a size and reach advantage. Few were as good at this as Marciano.

 

Halfordscream rarely comments around here but it is always incisive and well stated, whether one agrees entirely or not. I tend to agree with most of what he says above, but he can not be back statistically in his argument regarding poor recruitment of talent in Rocky's day. TV was affecting the sport but there were still a glut of boxing gyms in all major American cities and boxing results were still above the fold in papers. At some point one must accept that Rocky was the best of his era.