[GIF] Max Baer showing skill and reflexes with a triple jab, followed by a sharp combo, and a slip

https://streamable.com/pxep5
(HD - Post Crisp Slow Mo)

Just a chin with a big right hand?
Do old tropes die hard?

I remember a day on this forum when it was consensus that fighters from this era didn't use sharp jabs, combo punching, and head movement.

 

You've picked *this* footage as an exemplary display of Baer's under-appreciated skills and reflexes?? He's utterly unimpressive here. The first jab is a harmless arm punch, and the reaching third jab is little better. The telegraphed right misses completely. Hard to tell from the footage but the combination doesn't look particularly sharp and in any event doesn't seem to bother his opponent much at all. The way that he backed away from his opponent's right lead with his hands down and chin high worked but really isn't anything to write home (or a post) about. Extremely basic stuff here.

Anyway, just my drunk two cents. Not going to argue though. I'd rather hear what others in this forum think about this footage that you've selected as a demonstration of Baer's skills and reflexes. If a lot of posters side with you here then I might need to check my biases or whatever.

 

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Hell no

Have you heard of a set up jab?

The third jab is thrown after Farrs head is already slipped back from the second jab, forcing him to use his feet to move back, temporarily rendering him out of position, thus giving Baer the opportunity to set up his attack.

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The powerful overhand right forces Tommy to squander into a crouch out of emergency panic, costing him his balance and footing, thus presenting Baer with the opportunity to throw his combo.

Elbows remain by the body.
Punches are thrown in smooth succession.
Hands return as quick as they were sent.
All boxes for sharp punching, checked.
The first two bounce Farrs body from right to left, and then left to right, evidence of power.

The level of physics you are expecting from footage of this period is unreasonable and unattainable. Which I believe is the root of this grand misunderstanding of old school boxing.

He slips the punch immediately after expending a combo.
It's always impressive if you have the reflexes to take away the opponents opportunity to return fire, especially in this case where Farr returned fire during Baers attack. This is fast paced stuff.

 

Well, forum, you heard him.

This is our opportunity.
Either show him what you know you see with your eyes, or remain in your bed of old tropes.
Staying oblivious just to sit comfortably in old narratives will become increasingly difficult as footage becomes better and better.

The biggest flag bearer of "old school fighters were worse," is kind enough to allow this opportunity.
Let's put an end to this, so we can finally start REALLY talking about boxing.
So we can discuss topics honestly, and genuinely without having our opinions boxed in by agenda.
This is our chance really expand our consciousness beyond the whole old vs. new crap.

I remember a day on this forum when it was consensus that fighters from this era didn't use sharp jabs, combo punching, and head movement. Look at what you see above, from supposedly one of the clumsiest boxers of the era. With the help of a special slow motion effect created only in the last 5 years. It wasn't possible to see it like this in the 80's. I understand and feel for that.

But we need to ****ing evolve our thinking.

It's time.

 

Yes, forum...please show me.

Actually, the existing footage has already long since made the old hero-worshipping narratives untenable. Your work in trying to reimagine Baer into some kind of great, skilled boxer has nothing to do with the quality of footage though. It's borderline gaslighting at this point, tbh.

Baer was crude even by the standards of his era but ok, whatever. I'll be that.

The irony! You have the most consistent, transparent agenda on this forum (no offense). You are here to glorify the old school champions of yesteryear and to rationalize away their flaws and technical shortcomings. It's like a religious mission or something.

That never happened.

Not gonna lie--this rallying call was pretty inspirational. Good luck! I hope the folks around here don't break your heart. Anyway, I'm going to sleep. Peace.

 

As the producer of one of the most notorious boxing channels on YouTube, I can say with unequivocal doubt, that footage quality drastically impacts the perception on exactly that. I have heard from hundreds, if not thousands of people who have changed their minds about a boxer after seeing high quality footage of them.

My ideas are backed in substance, experience, and from the voices and opinions of real people.

I want to talk about boxing in accurate terms. That's it.
Wladmir Klitschko is one of the greatest fighters of all time.
I'm a massive fan of Wilder and Joshua. I made one of the most popular promos for their soon to be Megafight with all my heart and soul.

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What you're saying just isn't true Kevin.

My heart would break for you, I, and everyone here.

 

This is probably Baer's finest moment.

And I'm still not sure whether he actually won that exchange.

Now, if he could fight like that all the time, he'd have been something else.

Instead, I can show you probably 3 moments where he looked clumsy, awkward, inept or plain lead footed for every such moment that you could show me. Granted, Farr was an excellent boxer, but he had little power and Baer looked worse against worse opponents.

 

Is this supposed to be impressive stuff? 3 feeble jabs - where only the middle one seems to be landing?

Look, I really enjoy some of your videos. That Louis/Wilder thing you put together was absolutely amazing!

But I don't get these very short clips, where you desperately try to make a point. We all know, that Baer wasn't known for his great technique... but, sure, you can always find short sequences that would seem to contradict this belief. You can probably do that for most boxers.

I wouldn't even be surprised, if someone can find a clip of Ali landing a punch to the body! Does this prove, that he was a great (or even average) body puncher? No, of course not!

 

On another tack, if you aren't in some way being paid money for your editing skills there's no ****ing justice in the world. Wilder / Joshua has always been a 'meh' fight for me, but after your promo I'm all fired up for it Great job.

 

I think Reznick is trying to say "look, these old guys that everybody writes off, were actually capable of good technique, and you are overlooking it." And yeah, he is making his point here. On the other hand, its also like looking at something through a straw and extrapolating that view to the bigger picture.

 

Doesn't scratch the surface.

But I can do that with Foreman. The point is not to argue that Baer was a perfect technician.
The point is that old fighters are judged on a different standard, and are given unequal tolerance for their technical deficiencies, and somehow have a ceiling attributed to what they are capable of athletically, physically, skill wise.

 

A lot of the time I think the old fighters do look worse technically because in large part they laid the groundwork for modern boxing. Modern boxing starts from the floor that the greatest of the "old guys" laid. Who did these guys have as reference if they wanted to learn technique?

I think that they were the equal of modern boxers physically, though.

 

Boxing is so much more learning the basic mechanics, and branching off into your own style, and having the wherewithal to win a fight, than it is hard emulation of past boxers.

The real magic happens when the individual makes a mental decision to become great, rather than from epiphanies watching old film. The latter can lead to some great developments, but the meat and potatoes is in the former.

Yes, you can learn a shitload from the ones who came before you.
Some, like Tyson, used every drop of knowledge that he could.
Many others remain willfully ignorant of the past and succeed regardless.
Many modern fighters, when looking for inspiration, only go back 10-20 years. Any boxing gym in any era of time will have predecessors who learned from predecessors within that same frame of time.

A guy from 1767 who can properly use his back leg as an anchor he can push off of, and his front leg as a dynamic weight shifter with the perfect distribution of balance is more valuable to me than a guy who has access to a lot of boxing footage.

This is why I think in terms of transcendental boxers.
The best boxers of all time share a space of ability and quality, regardless the time period they were plucked from (to a reasonable degree).

You can watch all the footage in the world and still be bad.
But you can move mountains with superb balance.

 

Sorry but that clip does not impress one bit if it is being used as some kind of barometer.
Of course, that is in my opinion only and others can make up their own minds.

 

Generally speaking I agree with you. That's why I look at Louis and think "THAT is a modern boxer." It's also why I look at Baer and think "What the hell is he doing? How did he succeed?"

But good on you for bringing these clips where he looks decent to our attention. You may succeed in softening a few stances.