[GIF] Max Baer showing skill and reflexes with a triple jab, followed by a sharp combo, and a slip

I “endorsed” the post understanding that it contained a bit of corrective hyperbole. I think my own highly critical comments about Baer have been a bit less overstated.

 

This. It’s hard to have intelligent, sober conversations about the sport when fanboys insist on ignoring obvious flaws or— worse yet—trying to imagine that they were actually strengths.

 

Fair enough.
I think you've got a pretty strong record of being critical of 1930s fighters on matters that you'd ignore in 2000s fighters, as reznick has pointed out. I thought his posting of Vitali v Briggs was a good example. If those two were 1930s fighters you wouldn't fail to mock the ugly, clumsy action.

I don't agree with everything reznick posts either. I think he's overrated the things shown in a lot of his clips/Gifs in the past but I agree with him on this one here.

I'm certainly not infallible or completely balanced either. None of us are perfect. There's room enough for all our opinions.

 

I don't know about this! Maybe it can sometimes be good to have a young fanboy look at things with fresh new eyes, and explain to us what really is going on.

Remember that short clip of Carnera awkwardly stumbling forward? Until recently, I thought this highlighted the Italian's crudeness - but now I have come to realize, that this was actually a clever demonstration of "the shift".

This has taught me, that I don't know everything... and that it's never too late to learn something new!

 

Ok. Fair enough. Often it's hard to remember what came from which poster, and if I have given an unfair representation of your views I apologize.

During my 10 years here I don't think I've started a thread just to be negative about a fighter (I hope not, in any case) and I don't see the point in being on a forum just to be negative. Many times I have of course been critical of excuses for a given fighters poor performances, but I still have the highest respect for those fighters. But when you often end up in those discussions you might be thought of as negative. But I really can't think of a fighter we discuss around here that I don't respect. These guys did after all earn their living in one of the toughest and most brutal ways you can.

 

As I've explained many times, I think you're kidding yourself. But maybe I'm wrong. What are some instances where you've acknowledged specific technical critiques of a past heavyweight great as legitimate?

You really seem stunned that I rate Marciano highly in terms of "greatness." Don't be. It doesn't mean as much to me as it does to you. To me it means that he had a great career, was dominant in his time, and took on the top available challengers (as old and small as they were). There are many more recent "less great" heavyweights who I would pick to beat him head to head. And it's not because he fought in the past--it's because of his obvious physical and technical limitations. Nothwithstanding your claims that Marciano was fast and defensively skilled, with excellent balance and no technical flaws whatsoever... Marciano certainly had traits that I admire, but I seldom get to around to mentioning them because of all the ridiculous pro-Marciano hyperbole and misdiagnoses of his fights on this forum. The irony is that I speak more highly of him more often to my friends who are boxing fans, who often underestimate him and his accomplishments.

But yeah, I do have a problem. I think that the old-school heavyweight hero worship that pollutes these threads and forums is childish, silly, and unnecessary. It leads to people saying embarrassingly dumb things, often at the expense of more recent non-ATG fighters who I think highly of, and it gets in the way of us having better discussions about a sport that we all love.

 

Guys all this accusatory character assassination is boring and redundant. It all started with a thread why dd Max Baer lose to Tommy Farr. I wrote because he was not that good and he wasn't that good. He lost through out his career to multiple contenders who were good solid pro's but not top world class heavyweights. He was just 26 when he lost to Braddock and was destroyed by Louis .. he then was fed a real mixed bag of handpicked soft touches and a few surgically selected names to try and make it back and he could not do it , twice getting beat badly by Lou Nova, another contender but no world beater.

Baer was a terrific character with some physical gifts but on top of everything he was never a dedicated fighter. He had no burning desire. He was an anti-Marciano or Frazier in that regard. He never came close to mastering his craft and it showed through out his career. There is a reason why is is referred to as The Clown Prince and Mad Cap Maxie ..

 

Replace old school with new school and that last paragraph is exactly how I feel.