[GIF] Primo Carnera uses his size jab, but then Max Baer turns into a savage (HD)

I assure you I would not.

No, the thing is--we don't have to view these short clips and highlights in a vacuum. We can compare the action in the clip to other things we know about these fighters, other fights we've seen, etc.

I'm only critiquing the clip that you hand-selected for us. You're acting like I went out and cherry-picked this clip and then posted it to rag on Baer. And as I explained above, my assessment of Baer is certainly not based solely on your clip.

With all due respect, at the very least you seem to discard any respect for the principles of boxing technique whenever those principles come in tension with your exaltation of fundamentally flawed old school fighters. You take on this relativist perspective that ultimately becomes completely circular (i.e. because Max Baer was able to have a very distinguished career using the technique in question, the technique therefore cannot be flawed).

I would be interested in hearing more about your time in the gym though (sincerely). Has it changed your perspective on any of the tactical and technical points many of us have debated in the past?

Depends what you mean by "slicksters." I certainly prefer them to punchers though, and I admit my bias there. But some of my favorite boxers, though technically sound, would hardly be considered slicksters.

 

primo reminds me more of vitali than wlad.

if anything he combines the best abilities of both K bros, but without their weaknesses.

 

I see more or less the exact same thing, though I'm not sure that his chin is really all that bad (after all, he took a decent amount of punishment before succumbing to Louis).

 

Any avoidance of an attack is a good defence. Hitting someone hard enough that they think twice about hitting you back is a good defence as well. A defence only needs to be as good as is required to win a fight.

I don't know how highly you rate Carnera. I don't bother rating him at all tbh. But no matter how Carnera is rated, no matter how low anyone is rated, if they don't mount an effective attack then your defence has done it's job.

Modern fans, strange label that. Not sure what a modern fan is, surely every boxing fan posting now is around in the modern era therefore is a modern fan. I'm not sure if Bowe is miles ahead of Baer in terms of defence. Neither utilised sharp or slick defensive maneuovres, they defended in a subtle way that was more about minimising damage and leaving them in position to fire back with power shots. Defending with their chin, taking one to give one and whatever label fits.

That aside, both also managed to combine their skills to defeat the reigning HW champion and both did it as underdogs.

Mayweather isn't known for trading up close, but the way he dismantled Hatton in the pocket suggests to me his offensive abilities are more than advertised. Whitaker is not known for his crushing power but the way he forced the action against Hurtado suggests he had more sting when he wanted to use it.

A lot of elite level boxers are more well rounded then given credit for, they just specialised in other areas which led to more emphasis being placed on them.

Will Baer ever be considered a defensive wizard? Of course not. But the defensive skills he did have led to him spending a time as the best HW on the planet.

 

Lol

 

Louis did not find him to be particularly strong, in fact it was him manhandling Carnera, not the other way around.

 

I think you are both correct to some degree. Baer was following the long accepted tenet of tucking your chin down into your shoulder to protect it, but Baer was always susceptible to the jab ,as both Loughran and Braddock demonstrated.

 

I'd bet a lot of money that you routinely ignore or even celebrate tactics and techniques on this forum that would get you criticized or laughed at by the trainers and pros in your gym.


Have you ever disagreed with Janitor on anything?

 

Oh, is that all? Lol He got outboxed by LHWs. When was the last time that ever happened to Klischko?

 

Never suggested that you were Satan or that anyone at your gym laughs at you. What I said was, I bet that the experienced fighters and trainers at your gym would share my criticisms of some of the tactics and techniques exhibited by older fighters in the various gifs and videos that get debated on this forum.

I don't have much personal experience. But I've trained in a couple of gyms (mainly) with two pro trainers, and each were sticklers for certain modern conventions wrt technique, with me and their more experienced/serious fighters, and highly critical of even fairly minor lapses in form and execution. My limited personal experience, combined with everything else I've gleaned about the sport over the years, makes it impossible for me to fathom that many of the professionals in your gym would share your views about the things we've debated in this forum.

 

@reznick -- FYI, I think this was my only commentary on Carnera's chin.