[GIF] This rediculous knockdown by Sonny Liston

If someone won't take the fight, probably in no small part due in the interest of self-preservation isn't this a form of cleaning them out?

 

I dont think so. There is proof that Ingo said he would fight him. He even said it would be better for him if Sonny beat Patterson so he could fight him. Ingo after all beat a guy in one round that Liston went the distance with. Why would Ingo fear Liston in that sense?

This was the one fight a year rematch era.

The Ingo v Liston fight was not made. That's all we can say.

 

It's an open book!!!!

 

One idea about Liston I haven't seen floated is how the Sonny of the first Ali bout would have fared against any of the other contenders that day.

 

Yes because if you didn't everyone would see straight thru the agenda and you'd have no hope of gaining any traction with anyone.

Legitimate questions can be asked of Liston, absolutely. There is a grey area there for sure which some will see one way and others another. Most greats will have such spots. The way you go about it and try to shape it however shows no small tendancy to a heavy bias.

All of us have a bit of bias to this fighter or that one, or against another. It's human nature. If it gets too noticable we will likely be called out on it, even if we try to sugar coat it with the odd bit of praise before injecting ourselves into the first perceived opening to start the take down.

 

Ingo would not even honour the return fight clause with Machen! He wouldn't go anywhere near Liston!

 

I would make Sonny favourite over Ingo just like I would favour Holmes over Coetzee...But because those fights didn't happen you cannot rule anything out in an actual fight since it did not happen.

You can say Sonny and Holmes were probably the best of their era but because they did not entirely clean it out you cannot call it a clean sweep of eras for Larry or Sonny.

 

When was this?

In 1958 Ingo beat Machen who was ahead of Sonny in the ratings.

In 1959 Ingo beats Patterson and is tied to a rematch clause.

1960 Ingo loses to Patterson and triggers his rematch clause.

1961 Ingo loses to Patterson.

1962 Ingo makes three comeback Fights & says he wants to fight Sonny.

1962 Liston beats Patterson but is tied to a rematch with Floyd.

1963 Ingo fights once but retires BEFORE Sonny rematches Patterson.

 

It was in an article I read I can't remember the specific date. Ingo definitely reneged on a contract for a return with Machen,I think he knew he might have got lucky catching Machen cold, in any event he would not entertain him again.I think Liston brutalises Ingo.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1959696174FSupp522_1622/MACHEN v. JOHANSSON

 

I guess just about everyone, apart from you would say that Liston cleaned out the heavyweight division before Floyd agreed to fight him He missed just Ingo who quacked ,quacked.

 

I the piece you posted it states:

"As a result of his dramatic victory over Machen, Johansson was immediately thrust into a position of prominence in the boxing world. The November 1958 issue of Ring Magazine stated that, as of September 16, 1958, Johansson was the number one ranked contender, and Machen number five. The National Boxing Association ratings listed Johansson as second and Machen as fifth. On January 29, 1959, after months of negotiations between Johansson, Ahlquist, promoter Rosensohn and Cus D'Amato, manager for Floyd Patterson, an agreement was signed for a match between Patterson and Johansson. These negotiations began the day after Johansson's victory."

Machen, whilst loftilly ranked, had been a hard sell since the infamously "eliminated themselves" draw with Foley, the subsequent selection of #3 Roy Harris over both Foley and Machen followed by the loss of Folley to Cooper, Pastrano losing to London meant there was no logical contender until somebody could sensationally come along. That person, with his sensational knockout of Machen, was Ingo.

 

Bottomline Ingo signed e rematch clause with Machen and reneged on it.

 

Eddie Machen was pressing for an immediate rematch with Johansson??
That's crazy. It looked Johansson almost killed him!

 

Bit of difference between Ingo running from Liston and Holmes refusing to fight mandatories. Just a little. Holmes was a long way off cleaning out the division post 82.

 

But Ingo did not "run" from Liston. There was no point from 1958-1963 Johansson v Liston could have been made.

1962 Ingo stated he wanted to fight Liston but Sunny was tied to the same rematches he had been.

I often wonder about the style advantage Ingo may have had.