Gilbert Odd's heavyweight rankings

I used to have that book. Yellow front page. Can't find it anywhere. Sonny Liston in particular was not that highly rated in the ATG lists in the early 1980s. And Gilbert was highly regarded authority at that time. Former writer fir Boxing News.

 

It seems crazy now but not in the 1980s. Odd spent a lifetime reporting on boxing he lived through most of those eras and we did not. It needs to be taken into perspective. Sonny quitting then losing a title fight in one round was seen as disgraceful. It shattered his image forevermore that was how I remember it reading magazines during the early 1980s. Then once Tyson came along the image of intimidating champions became important again. Same with Foreman. It's like he was erased from credibility once Ali beat him. Patterson regaining the title was seen as fantastical. I think reading that book Odd believed Ali deliberately dropped the title to outdo Patterson and become three time champion? Have you found that bit yet?

 

Most of the list id OK, but there are a few very unusual picks.

I would be more than interested to hear his rationale for his high rankings of Patterson, Burns, and Braddock.

 

Floyd Patterson was a fantastic fighter. Muhammad Ali said Patterson was "The Best Boxer" he ever fought. Great rankings from Gilbert Old, i may have rated Carnera higher but Old knows more about the sport than me or anyone else on these forums.

 

I don't know if I agree with your ratings, but when you are talking about a guy that saw boxing from the early 1900s into the 1990s, I want to hear what he has to say. I want to know what he saw, what he thinks and why he thinks it. I know he has seen fighters in a way I'll never see them and I'd give anything to talk to him.

 

I think he explicitly stated somewhere in that book that Floyd Patterson's greatness lies in the fact that he was the youngest ever champion and the first to regain the championship.

 

I get the impression Odd credited Burns with making the title a more international championship. Taking it abroad promoting boxing.

I think I have a Gilbert odd book that has a chapter on Braddock beating Baer somewhere. I will have to read up on it to see where he is coming from with that one. Perhaps it is the upset angle? It seems the greater impression a champions story made on the mainstream sports fan elevated his standing in his list.

 

For the time period (mid 80s), I think the list would be considered a bit cliché. Fighters go in and out of fashion.

For instance, Heavyweight Tunney was a darling of the 80s, but now a days not particularly well respected.

 

Even the so called experts don't know what they are talking about.

Boxing along with a variety of other sports (excluding the big 4) has very unknowledgeable fans.

 

In his summing up of Jack Johnson for," In The Ring And Out" named," The Afterword," Odd states that he considered Johnson the greatest heavy until Louis came along ,and,when Ali appeared he gave him the top spot but after the first Ali v Frazier fight he reverted to his original choice ,making Jack Johnson the number one heavyweight of all time,or as he put it,
"Taking into consideration the times in which he operated I firmly believe that John Arthur Johnson,born in GalvestonTexas USAon March 31st 1878,was the superlative exponent of the Noble Art among the big men that the World of Boxing has ever seen".The book was first published in the UK in 1977,and I have a copy of it as well as Kings Of The Ring.

 

In Gilbert's 1983 "Encyclopdia Of Boxing" He writes of Liston on page 68.

There was something enigmatic about the fistic career of Sonny Liston, the ponderous, taciturn heavyweight from Arkansas who's 17 month reign as champion was anything but illustrious. Although his career lasted more than 16 years he had only 51 contests. And although 36 of his wins were inside the distance his encounters with Cassius Clay were decidedly inglorious.

Liston was beaten only once in his first 34 fights, and that defeat was caused by a broken jaw. But those 34 fights were spread over nine years. Two years were lost after he received a nine month prison sentence for assaulting a policeman and quit the ring for more than a year after his release.

In 1962 Liston was favoured to dethrone Floyd Patterson, who was conceding him 25lbs. He did so in 2min. 6 seconds of the first round, and in a return bout ten months later took just 4 seconds longer to retain his title.

Listons menacing appearance and his past record, both in and out of the ring, made him seem almost invincible in 1964 when he prepared to defend his title against rising star Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali). Their respective chances were reflected in the 7-1 odds laid on the champion. However, at the end of round 6, Liston retired (he refused to get up from his stool) with a damaged shoulder. It was an unsatisfactory ending that aroused a storm of controversy. The return fight did nothing to settle it, Liston going down and out from in the first round to a "phantom" right to the chin that few saw, even on a slow motion replay.

An attempted comeback that lasted four years and covered 14 wins ended when Liston was knocked out by Leotis Martin in late 1969.

 

Just goes to show you, what qualifies an expert, reading a lot of books and forming an opinion. I like the old trainers and ex-fighters there are a few writers that are well researched that I respect but there are also so-called experts but truth is some of them are totally clueless.

I think I respect some posters on this site (some are writers) much more as qualified opinions and we all still differ mainly because we may know certain points of boxing history better than others but everyone has an opinion

by the way my wife has a better opinion than this guy and her ratings are far better IMO