Give credit, Marciano left the heavyweight division ALMOST decimated.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Jul 5, 2020.


Rocky should have hung around to fight...

  1. Hurricane Jackson

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Bob Baker

    4.2%
  3. Nino Valdez

    12.5%
  4. John Holeman

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. John Summerline

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Willie Pastrano

    4.2%
  7. Franco Cavichhi

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Harold Carter

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Bob Satterfield

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. He left at the right time.

    79.2%
  1. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marciano announced his retirement on April 27, 1956. According the NBA ratings that had come out April 4, the top 9 (for some reason, boxrec does not have a full ten) include:

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    Not much there, imo. Guys like Patterson, Machon, Foley, Williams and Johansson had not quite arrived yet.

    We all think Valdez deserved a shot because he had once had the #1 ranking, and the fight was somewhat intriguing due to his size. I still think it would have been a one-round affair, as he just wasn't that talented. After his good run from 53-55, he lost fights to Moore, Satterfield, Baker and Machon. He did manage do beat Cockell, but I am not sure any realistic case can be made for him being competitive. The ship had sailed.

    Jackson was a good fighter, but a swarmer who lacked a big punch. Would have played right into Rocky's hands. He had already suffered the TKO to Valdez, so whereas he had a good chin, he demonstrably could be hurt.

    Pastrano was a fine LHWs and eventual champion, but had no power, and would have been a terrible style match-up for Rocky.

    Bob Baker gets a lot of shout outs, as he was as strapping 6'2" and had good wins against Layne, Bivins, Valdez, Brion, Baksi, and a number of others, but he started out 56 with a loss to Jackson, and, again, was not a guy who had the power to keep Rocky honest. Just not a credible fight.

    A lot of people like Satterfield because he was a strapping 6'2" and had the power that a lot of the other guys lacked, but the guy was fragile, and had already been beaten by Marciano victims Charles, Layne and Moore. In fact, he was knocked out by Jake Lamotta. I would question the ethics of putting this guy in the ring with Marciano, as he might have been killed.

    If anyone wants to argue that Cavechi, Summerline, Carter or Holman would have made good opponents, be my guest.

    So, really, on the balance, Marciano left at the right time.

    Anyone want to make a case for one of these guys?
     
  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small. Marciano sucks and was very small.
     
  3. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    He left at the right time because his body was breaking down and he no longer had the fire. When you no longer want it, it's time to quit.
     
  4. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Probably got out at the right time. I think Valdes has a case for being avoided from 53-55 though.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He has a case because he was ranked number 1 at the end of 53 &54. I don't think he would have beaten Marciano but he deserved the chance.
     
  6. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    At this point the NBA didn't have a top 10 as such. Every 3 months they would list an indeterminate number of fighters grouped as "logical contenders", "outstanding boxers" or "honorable mentions."

    For the first quarter of 1956 there were 3 outstanding boxers and 6 honorable mentions. Which pretty much backs up your point since by not listing any logical contenders the NBA were explicitly saying there was no one out there who they considered any real threat to Marciano.
     
    RockyJim likes this.
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was a great retirement. Not to say he couldn't have won one more.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    When he gave his retirement press conference he was asked if he thought he still had fights left in him,he seemed surprised by the question and said definitely.As reported in the Boxing Illustrated.
     
    RockyJim likes this.
  9. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rocky had beaten everyone they put in front of him, He'd been working his butt off since 1947 to get and stay in shape. Locking himself away in training camp....working himself down to 188 lbs...getting himself mentally ready to fight. His brother Peter said that Rocky started to hate the smell of the gym...and he was losing the fire. Charlie Goldman said that he saw Rocky in early 1956 and told him he was looking "puffy". Rocky told him that he wasn't taking his walks anymore. Goldman knew then that he was done. He had trouble with his back...and his relationship with manager Al Weill was crumbling. So...in April 1956 he said goodbye. He left while his powers were still intact. You don't stay around forever with Rocky's style. 49-0 is a hell of a lot better than 49-1.
     
  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A win against Baker or Valdez May have quieted some critics today. Back then I’m sure it didn’t matter because size didn’t win them the championship. That being said a Baker fight at the time would have been ideal even if he had already lost to Moore
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He got out at the right time.

    With no crystal ball to see into the future, and know who the winners and losers were going to be, fight number fifty could have been a very lackluster affair.
     
  12. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He left at the right time. Even 60 plus years later in the over critical time we live in-it's hard to argue for him staying around longer.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  13. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No one can say for sure who would have won a fight that never happened, though Rocky would be the favourite. As you say, Nino probably deserved the chance to find out.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  14. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Marciano would have beaten any of those guys had he not retired, but would lose to better contenders like Patterson, Machen, Folley, and Williams down the road if he took on all the contenders. I think the '59 comeback would be ill-advised.
     
  15. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lol.

    Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier, and George Foreman name him #2 of all time. Louis said he would have beaten him in his prime, and Dempsey said he hit harder than him or Louis. Louis said he hit harder than him or Schmeling. Walcott said he hit harder than Louis.

    Some guy on the internet who talks out of his ass says he "sucks."

    You make a buffoon of yourself. There is no denying the man's greatness. The argument is ONLY over its extent.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020