Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

Pictures don't lie. I think Magna was referring to fighting sharpness, though. I don't think the arguments about Holmes being better in the Mercer fight than the Tyson one are outrageous. But it is not one I support. I actually thought Holmes managed some glimpses of success against Tyson. And I also thought Holmes looked generally more inconsistent and out of form toward the end of his reign anyway... really.

 

Yeah Holmes looked horribly rusty against Tyson. atsch

Tyson was coming at him at 100 mph. Holmes was getting older not better, he would have never been capable of handling that kind of pressure, especially three or four years later.

 

I don't believe Tyson's opposition was that weak. In fact it gets terribly underrated. The only champs who fought better opposition would be Ali and Holyfield.

 

:huh

Tyson tore through a division that wasn't amazing, saw him beaten, and missing out on the biggest fight of his life against Holy in '91. That hurts his resume no matter what.

 

So which eras were amazing besides the 70's and 90's? Which heavyweights fought better opposition than Tyson? Looking for replies is all.

There's not much separating Tyson's opposition from the other greats like Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes, Lewis. ALi and Holyfield are clearly superior but nobody else is. Unless someone can bring up some good arguments. :good

 

Don't know which you mean by era but as far as straight opposition goes for w/l Lennox, Foreman, Ali, Louis, Frazier, Holyfield, Johnson.

 

vs Trevor Berbick 1986: Grade: B-

vs Bonecrusher Smith 1987: Grade: C

vs Pinklon Thomas 1987: Grade: B-

vs Tony Tucker 1987: Grade: B

vs Tyrell Biggs 1987: Grade: B

vs Larry Holmes 1988: Grade: C-

vs Tony Tubbs 1988: Grade: B

vs Michael Spinks 1988: Grade: B+

vs Frank Bruno 1989: Grade: B

vs Carl Williams 1989: Grade: B-

 

I disagree with Lewis, Foreman and Frazier. Frazier and Foreman may have fought the bigger names (the Ali-Frazier-Foreman triangle) but overall Tyson's opposition is deeper. Lewis is about even.

I'll be back later today.

 

Foreman having KOs over Frazier Norton, Moorer, Lyle is better than Tyson opponents? I dunno but I look forward to your rebuttal.

 

What the **** is this ****? :rofl :rofl

 

Bigger top end names yes, although Tyson wiped about about twice as many rated heavyweights and had a title reign to speak of. Yes, he ran into Ali and was the Dope in the Rope-a-Dope and a huge reason Ali is GOAT -- he shouldnt of won.

 

I'd argue Holmes has a better resume, in some ways similar, but with more longevity. Although Holmes didn't tear through his opposition like Tyson did he has incredible depth and arguably has the bigger win of the two (prime Mercer) and you could argue the Norton win as well (although slightly past his best) another point that could be significant is that quite a few opponents Tyson faced, where worse versions that had previously been matched up against Holmes Williams/Smith/Berbick/Holyfield/Frazier

Now I'm sure you'd counter with the argument that Tyson did better against the opposition, but did he really do that much better if at all? Frazier was stopped in 1 by both men. Even. Berbick dominated decision by Holmes, taken out early from Tyson. Edge to Tyson so far. Smith stopped in 12 by Holmes, UD12 Tyson. Even again. Holyfield, Tyson stopped in 11, Holmes close but clear UD to Holyfield. slight edge to Holmes as Tyson only had 3 rounds in the bank. Williams, comfortable decision (some saw it quite close) Tyson KO1 even again. Berbick shutout decision to Holmes, Tyson KO2. Edge to Tyson and overall.

Considering this is one if Tysons main arguments in the way he beat his opposition, with the common opponents with Holmes, he hasnt done that much better at all, and especially when you take into account that Holmes was fighting better versions of most, if not all of them. A long with wins that aren't matchable on Holmes resume like Witherspoon, Norton and Mercer which personally are better than any of Tysons wins, Spinks being the only man that comes close to these 3 IMO shows Larry clearly has the better resume.

However I realise you haven't openly disagreed with this point (although you may well do) and that you probably have Holmes above Tyson in your heavyweight rankings anyway.

 

Tyson's opposition as champion was very tough ...

Berbick was a tough guy that went a hard 15 w a prime Holmes, knocked out John Tate, thrashed an undefeated Greg Page and just upset a prime Pinklon Thomas.

Bonecrusher was huge, powerful, and a murderous puncher who was coming off his biggest career win v.s. Witherspoon. He also gave an aging but still very tough Larry Holmes hell.

Thomas was a bit past his best but came into the fight in great condition and was crushed in a manner he never was beaten before ..

Tucker was huge, powerful and talented. A former amateur star ... again, coming off his biggest career win. Tyson was simply too good.

Briggs was an amateur superstar and a highly touted pro in his own prime .. he was simply crushed ..

Holmes was the only one of Tyson's opponents that was not near his prime or ready for such a fight ... he was 37 and coming off 18 months of inactivity and simply too the fight for money .. the later version that fought Mercer and Holyfield was much better because like Foreman he slowly rebuilt himself through activity ...

Tubbs was a very talented guy, still near his prime who could give a ton of guys fits ... he was simply caught fast and hard early by a terrific fighter ..

Mike Spinks was simply crushed in a stylistic nightmare .. that same Spinks would have defeated or fought on even terms with many of the so called other heavyweight greats ..

IT's so easy to dislike or discount Tyson because of the horrible things he did through out his career but it does not change the facts and among them are that in his prime , Berbick to Spinks, he was an absolute force of nature, one of the most dangerous fighters that ever lived and dominated huge, talented , very good super heavyweights that were either in or were close to their own primes .. I feel his title opposition dwarfs Johnson's, Dempsey's, Louis', Marciano's and Ali's first reign ...

 

Common now bro, Holmes absaloutley schooled Berbick.

 

Really, watch the fight ... Holmes clearly won but it was possibly his toughest title defense pre-Witherrspoon .. Berick was tough and in there ...