Give me a thorough explanation as to why Hopkins should rank ahead of Jones

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Body Head, Sep 22, 2010.


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  1. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    Honestly to me you cannot compare their careers right now, look at this.



    Keith Holmes - Good win fought at Holmes natural weight.

    Syd Vanderpool - OK win fought at Syd's natural weight.

    William Joppy - Pretty good win fought at Joppy's natural weight.

    Antonio Tarver - Very good win went up to Light Heavy and beat Tarver, although Tarver was 37 years old and Jones beat him over 2 1/2 years earlier.

    Lupe Aquino - Smaller fighter who strated career at Welterweight. OK fighter.

    Kelly Pavlik - Smaller fighter who started career at middleweight. Hopkins fought Pavlik at a catch weight of 170 something Pavlik has never done in his entire career.

    Glen Johnson - Johnson had absolutely no one on his resume by the time he faced Hopkins. Johnson always struggled to make the middleweight limit. It was not until he moved up to Light Heavyweight where Johnson seen his success.

    Felix Trinidad - Smaller fighter who started career at welterweight. He wasn't bad at Middleweight when he fought Hopkins, but still Hopkins fought the smaller man.

    John David Jackson - Good win. Jackson was on the downhill by this time but still a pretty nice fighter. Jorge Castro beat the undefeated Jackson 2 1/2 years earlier before Hopkins did, as you know Castro got beat by Jones. Castro also gave Jackson another loss in '98.

    Oscar De La Hoya - Smaller fighter who started career at Lightweight. Hopkins fought Oscar at a catch weight of 158 pounds. The only fight Oscar had above this weight was agianst Felix Sturm at Middleweight in which many people thought he lost. The only reason why they gave Oscar the win was so they could set up the Hopkins fight....:patsch:lol:

    Simon Brown - Smaller fighter who started career at Welterweight. Hopkins fought Brown at Middleweight. Simon Brown didn't have one significant good win at Middleweight. Many people considered Brown well past prime when he fought Hopkins.

    Winky Wright - Smaller Fighter who started career at Junior Middleweight. Hopkins fought Winky at a catchweight of 170 pounds. This is the only time Winky has fought above the Middleweight limit.




    On the other hand Roy Jones has made a career of fighting boxers at their natural weight class or fighting the bigger men, excluding McCallum and Pazienza. But at least Pazienza proved he was decent enough at Super Middlewight by beating Ribbie Simms and Dana Rosenblatt. But that doesn't even matter because these two fighters wouldn't even rank in Jones top 10 best wins, whereas the smaller fighters you see at the top of this post rank in Hopkins top 10.


    Now do I think Hopkins could possibly rank ahead of Jones in the future? Possibly. But only if he beats one more good fighter after Pascal. Then he possibly could. Just by beating Jean Pascal won't do him any good in my books.


    I still think Bernard Hopkins is a great fighter with great skills, he just doesn't rank ahead of Roy Jones as of right now.
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #1
  2. HoldMyBeer

    HoldMyBeer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    why don't you just say that jones beat hopkins when it mattered most?

    there's nothing wrong with hopkins beating oscar or tito - especially tito since he proved against joppy that he could carry himself up to middle.

    hopkins against tito was a masterclass you'll rarely see - and it was because hopkins beat tito to the punch and genuinely gave tito a lesson in ring generalship.

    jones is the better fighter - i'm not contesting that, but jones and hopkins were the best fighters of their generation in my opinion.
     
    HoldMyBeer, Sep 22, 2010
    HoldMyBeer, Sep 22, 2010
    #2
  3. elTerrible

    elTerrible TeamElite General Manager Full Member

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    Oscar vs Hopkins was at 156 not 158
     
    elTerrible, Sep 22, 2010
    elTerrible, Sep 22, 2010
    #3
  4. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    no it was at 158, they just weighed lighter at weigh in.
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #4
  5. VX.Nefarious

    VX.Nefarious Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    roy is a garbage MC
     
    VX.Nefarious, Sep 22, 2010
    VX.Nefarious, Sep 22, 2010
    #5
  6. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    no Y'all Must've Forgot is CLASSIC!!! :lol::yep:deal
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #6
  7. Slacker

    Slacker Big & Slow Full Member

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    Hopkins has less natural athleticism, but better technique.

    Hopkins has a better resume of opposition. Roy spent more time opening up tomato cans.

    Hopkins is still fighting at the elite level. Roy is fighting bums.

    Hopkins is a more dedicated athlete. Roy underestimates opponents and can be lazy.

    Hopkins is a multidimensional fighter who can adapt to win. Roy is a one trick pony.

    If you want more detail, here:

    Hopkins:
    Win %: 88
    KO%: 55
    Length of reign: 12 yrs
    Title Defenses: 21
    Consecutive Title Defenses: 20
    Consecutive Wins

    Achievments:

    2 Division World titles: Undisputed World Middleweight Title, World Light Heavyweight Title
    Fighter of the Year 2001
    Longest-ever reign as World Middleweight Champion
    Most title defenses as World Middleweight Champion (20)
    Oldest fighter in history to hold the World Middleweight Title
    Future Hall of Famer

    Resume: ODLH, Eastman, Glen Johnson, Trinidad,Tarver, Wright, Pavlik, Joppy, etc..


    Roy Jones JR.
    Win%: 89
    KO%: 66
    Length of Reign: 11 yrs
    Title defenses: 25 ?
    Consecutive title defenses: 24?
    Consecutive Wins: 49

    Amateur Career
    * Record: 121-13
    * 1986 National Golden Gloves - Light Welterweight Champion (beat Victor Levine in the final)
    * 1986 Goodwill Games (Moscow) - Light Welterweight Bronze Medalist (lost to Igor Ruzhnikov)
    * 1987 National Golden Gloves - Light Middleweight Champion
    * 1987 Junior World Championship - Light Middleweight, lost to Andy Liebling
    * 1988 National Golden Gloves - Light Middleweight Bronze Medalist (lost a 3-round decision to Gerald McClellan)
    * 1988 Olympic Trials - defeated Frank Liles twice to go to the Olympics
    * Light Middleweight Silver Medalist for the United States at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul, South Korea.
    * Awarded the Val Barker Trophy as the best boxer of the Olympics

    Awards & Recognition
    * Named 1994 Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year
    * Ranked as the #1 Pound-for-Pound Boxer of All-Time in the Nov./Dec. 1997 issue of International Boxing Digest.
    * His victory on April 25, 1998 over Virgil Hill was named Ring Magazine Knockout of the Year.
    * Voted "Fighter of the Decade" for the 1990s by the Boxing Writers Association of America.
    * 2003 World Boxing Hall of Fame Fighter of the Year

    Resume: Ruiz, Vaca, Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Gonzalez, Trinidad
     
    Slacker, Sep 22, 2010
    Slacker, Sep 22, 2010
    #7
  8. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    If Hopkins wins the lineal light heavyweight title, even thought Pascal is undeserving, he will have leapfrogged Jones in my opinion.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Sep 22, 2010
    Nonito Smoak, Sep 22, 2010
    #8
  9. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    Jones achievements in that post completely overshadow Hopkins achievements....ummm lol.


    And why would u have Trinidad as a win on Jones resume and Vaca. You could have added Clinton Woods, Reggie Johnson, Thulani Malinga, Montell Griffin, Jorge Castro, Tony Thornton, Merqui Sosa, Thomas Tate, Eric Harding, Antonio Tarver etc...



    Where you said Hopkins has a better list of opposition and Roy spent most time opening up tomato cans, is where i didn't take your post seriously...it's ridiculous.
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #9
  10. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    I don't even think the most biased Hopkins fan will even post in this thread after my post and come up with a compelling argument to make me change my mind.
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #10
  11. Slacker

    Slacker Big & Slow Full Member

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    I think you need to go back and check those records. Tarver beat Roy...and Hopkins fought better quality opponents, more consistently with more consecutive title defenses.

    Also the part about longest reign of any middle weight in history, while Roy was dancing around fighting chumps...
     
    Slacker, Sep 22, 2010
    Slacker, Sep 22, 2010
    #11
  12. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    I shouldn't be, IMO. They're both ATGs, but Jones is greater. The argument for Hopkins I guess is that there really isn't anyone (other than Dawson) he should have fought but didn't, and that he's had extreme longevity. But Jones whooped Hopkins a bit before both their primes, and Jones had a higher median level of competition. I guess if you knock down Jones a few slots because he continued to fight for too long they might get close, but I'm not going to knock down someone's legacy because they have losses from when they were green or shot.
     
    Brickhaus, Sep 22, 2010
    Brickhaus, Sep 22, 2010
    #12
  13. Body Head

    Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) Full Member

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    Roy beat Tarver in 2003.....the **** are u talking about.

    You talk about Roy fighting bums but look who Hopkins defended his title against....

    Robert Allen x3
    Antwun Echols x2
    Steve Frank
    Carl Daniels
    Morrade Hakkar
    Andrew Council
    Joe Lipsey
    William Bo James


    That's 11 bull**** defenses right there.
     
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    Body Head, Sep 22, 2010
    #13
  14. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Can't Be Touched is at least a good workout song.

    Y'all musta forgot is just 2nd rate braggadocio.

    Jones is the greater fighter.
     
    Swarmer, Sep 22, 2010
    Swarmer, Sep 22, 2010
    #14
  15. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    Because Jones Jr. Had horrible PPV cards?
    Featuring......... Smoke Gainer.
     
    Hatesrats, Sep 22, 2010
    Hatesrats, Sep 22, 2010
    #15
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