Glen Mcrory last night

He couldn't figure it out because he just doesn't have the style or tools to get there. He's no better an inside fighter than Wlad. Haye is a gutsy guy with decent power and athleticism but he's not a relaxed guy nor does he have the toughness or nuances to shift in the pocket and put on a systematic beat down. He's always been an ambushing type of fighter. People were expecting a Joe Frazier type of approach but his style is closer to Jean Pascal then Joe Frazier. There is no other way he could've fought.

 

Only time I saw Haye running around the ring was against Valuev. Haye always fought backing up but when he did pounce he would let his fists go and throw combos. He fought like this against Barrett, Ruiz and Mormeck.

The complete disengagement looking for a single big shot was a tactic only used against Valuev and Wlad.


As to my expectations against Wlad I expect Haye to stay on his bike but when it was clear he was losing I expected him to take some chances and let some punches go particularly given his pre fight boasts.

I would say Haye regrets not giving it more. He never really loosened up and used his offensive weapons. Wlad obviously kept a very tight control on things but I also think Haye gave too much respect to Wlads power.

 

I think McCrory made a reasonable point.
On the other hand, I'd accept that most of Haye's actions were in self-defence.

 

The biggest problem with Haye is his mouth.

If he shut up and concentrated on fighting instead of being in the limelight nobody would have a problem with him.

 

You're a smart guy, SB. So you must know it's easier to do that against Barrett, Ruiz and Mormeck and you agree he fought a similar ambushing type of fight. All of them had some success in landing against him too. Haye finds it easier to release his punches against guys who are similar size. Wlad is a different kettle of fish all together from punching power, size and skillset. Night and day.

Surely you didn't take that boasting so seriously? C'mon man. You've been watching boxing long enough. That if anything was to draw Wlad out and give him a better chance of walking him on to something big. Take the guy for what he has in his arsenal and fight game not what comes out of his mouth. Taking chances is easier said than done, especially when it becomes clear you ain't winning the fight and only hope is to survive and go the distance.

I don't think he regrets anything. I bet he's just happy he was able to survive. He gave it his best shot and i know it would've satisfied some if he got reckless and let go with abandon and was on his back in the end seeing the ring lights, but then some people would've just called him dumb and he wouldn't be in the situation he is now. Able to get another fight with a Klitschko. Haye gets killed if he did anything else.

 

I think you possibly have Wlad on too high a pedestal. The guy is not unbeatable as we know. Ok Wlads defence/ jab is incredibly sophisticated but we also know Wlad is not a natural fighter, he says this himself. Wlad doesn't like being ruffled up and being put on the back foot. When Wlad gets hit he immediately goes into his shell and backs away.

A more naturally offensive fighter than Haye is probably needed to put Wlad under enough pressure to beat him but Haye has speed and power at his disposal. We don't know if these assets would have been effective because they were never used. It wasn't simply a case of Haye not being able to throw multiple punches, it was more down to the tactics being to try and land a big single shot. Haye I also firmly believe was afraid of getting KO'd. I remember as a kid sparring better fighters and being paralysed by the fear of getting hit repeatedly.

It must be clear to Haye that he cannot beat either Klitschko by pots shotting and if he ever does get to fight Vitali it would be a very cynical cash grabbing performance were he to run around the ring again.


Does anyone really want to see a Haye v Vitali fight being a repeat of Haye v Wlad?


That would be the best fight in HW boxing????:think Chisora v Wlad would be more interesting.

 

I can assure you i don't have Wlad on too high a 'pedestal'. In fact historically i don't rate him THAT much. I've gone into his flaws at length on many occassions and i don't wanna repeat myself. Saying he's better than Mormeck, Ruiz and Barrett is not having him on a high pedestal.

My point is Haye doesn't have the tools to fight the fight people where expecting him to and i don't put too much stock into his words. Too many people have this 'he let me down' attitude.

Look, we can all say how Haye should've gone balls to the wall. But we don't know how he feels when he gets hit. Haye doesn't take a punch THAT well and Wlad is a big puncher. That's what surpised me he took a couple of big shots and stayed on his feet. He fought his normal fight and tried to take Wlad into deep waters and catch him coming in. The problem for him was Wlad was not burning out and his footwork was very good. Hayes's gameplan was solid, he just fought a better fighter.

He gave himself the best chance to win, imo. He did the best with what he has. He hasn't got the tools to take advantage of Wlad's inability to fight inside. I'm sorry to break it to you but Haye doesn't beat Pinklin Thomas or Tim Witherspoon. Again he did his best. People were dissappointed with a fight that was marketed because of lack of talent and not on worth alone.

Fighters fight the style that is most comfortable to them most of the times. Haye fights that ambush, darting style because that's what he knows best. He can't take a lot of punishment to get to his man and walk him down. He's also a little chinny and tell me how many guys, who are chinny but can go balls to walls and engage in high contact fights at the elite level, not many. Wlad also struggle's with lack of toughness but he can hide those flaws better now with his tools and he's got a better sense of his bearings. He is a good fighter, but he benefits from the worst era in heavyweight history.

 

Ive always thought of Mcrory as being jelous of the money and aclaim Haye has had in the past.They had him a bit with him on sky sport news after the brawl laying in to Haye and not mentioning Chisora.

 

Slip, that is the entire issue for the majority of Hayeters. "He's not what he said he was!"

I wish the cry-babies would shut the **** up about it and move on. You've got Mayweather avoiding the biggest fight out there and Haye draws the most serious ire?

******ed!

 

Haye actually did better than I had expected against Wladimir. Showed much much defense that I thought he had.

The problem with Haye is not that he let the fans down, it's that he talked down every other heavyweight out there ('boring' Klitschkos and the 'bum' challengers) to get his reputation and his money, and then he proved himself to be mediocre as anything. Instead of saying 'hey, that was all just hype' or 'It's not as easy as it looks, I guess Wlad made me look like a bum too' he came up with all sorts of pathetic excuses.
He proved after the fight that he wasn't just acting a *****, he was just a bit of a *****.

 

I wouldn't say it was jealousy.

My hatred for Haye aside, only a genuine Haye nuthugger would argue that he's acted like anything but a complete and utter idiot for the past four years.

There's so many examples of it I can't really list them, from the chasing Wlad up the elevator, to ''all these ridiculous demands....''.

The man is mental. Plug his enormous head into the national grid and oil dependency will be over.

 

Well, that was true. It's all in how you see it. But look at it this way - that "complete and utter idiot" has made enough money in those four years so that he will never have to work again, his family will never want for anything, and he can have the lifestyle he wants.

Sounds pretty ****ing smart to me. Not the ninja-jedi warrior so many wanted him to be, but a pretty smart businessman when it comes down to it.

 

Oh yeah, he's done remarkably well for himself, considering his limitations in his profession.

I'm just a straight up kinda person, the sort of character that Haye is (or has become) doesn't appeal to me at all.

Money (or the prospect of having plenty) makes people act in strange ways (read the Choi from yesterday onwards) and to be honest it doesn't sit well with me.

He might actually be a decent bloke, but his behaviour just leaves a bit of a bitter taste. Sure, he's the one going in the ring etc, I dunno.... just hate the man.

I've said before that I've lost perspective on him to be able to comment fairly/properly, I suppose we all hate somebody

 

I agree ...... but the cost of all that must be to be regarded as (or exposed as) just another annoying ego-centric over-paid celebrity in the minds of most ordinary people.
Fair play to him. I admire what he's done for himself and I never even had any expectations that he'd be any sort of great or prolific fighter anyway.
It's just a fact that from my perspective he's another tiresome famous over-publicized guy on the TV, rather than a great boxer.
.... The flipside of course is that he doesn't even know I exist.

:good

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you saying but I still believe Haye could have done more. As I said it looks to me that Haye and Booth decided Haye couldn't take Wlad's punches. They were also probably worried about Haye's stamina issues. The result though was that Haye was very stiff and fought with trepidation and that really doesn't suit his style.

I think when Haye launched the very few attacks were he put punches together he backed Wlad up. When Wlad backs up he recoils his left and covers up. Haye needed to get him into that situation more often. Obviously this would be done in Haye's pouncing style where he doesn't hang around long enough for Wlad to counter with his right.


Wlad is a better HW than Haye but that doesn't mean Haye cannot trouble him. Trying to throw a right hand single potshot from 6 feet away at a guy 6'6 tall was never going to work. Haye and co led themselves to believe Haye's only chance was his power.

Like I said unless Haye engages more in a fight with Vitali I don't see the point of the fight.


We're not disagreeing on much on Haye. Time will tell what happens if Haye gets another chance.