Gold standard for a competitive title reign?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by The Fighting Yoda, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    Agreed- He really was the zenith. Others have beat better competition P4P in title reigns the thing with Louis was that he fought for so long in a dominant fashion and faced every guy in his division from his own and next generation.
     
  2. The Fighting Yoda

    The Fighting Yoda Active Member Full Member

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    Joe Louis undoubtedly had an impressive record and his longevity was nearly unique. But when it comes to great heavyweight records, I give the edge to Ali. Between Louis's World Championship victory and his last two title defenses (against Walcott), he only fought against one black boxer, when he gave his almost blind friend John Henry Lewis a last payday. But there were some more strong black boxers like, Jimmy Bivins, Elmer Ray, Lem Franklin, Turkey Thompson, Curtis Sheppard etc. It wasn't Joe Louis's fault, it was more because of the time, his management and promoters, the war etc.
    All in all, he was most likely the best anyway and he sparred many good black fighters or defeated them in exhibition fights.
    I just think that Ali's time was more competitive and the chances for fighters were more equal. Thus, for me it's Ali who fought also against former Olympic champions like Patterson, Frazier and Foreman, although his later fights were often closer and sometimes disputed.
     
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  3. ron davis

    ron davis Active Member Full Member

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    Richard, yes I agree it's the promoters and managers that make the matches (ducking is referred) for bigger gates and protecting their golden goose. Mike Jacobs was in complete control of who fights who in New York venues , and all fighters were under contract. For the most part he selected (cherry picking) the fighters to be matched with his Champions. On some occasions he made mistakes and his Champions were proven not all that, against an underdog that made him **** in his pants, leaving his Champions damaged goods, and only to get robbed in NY.
     
  4. DancingLeftAndRight

    DancingLeftAndRight Member Full Member

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    Interesting question.
    Ali's resume at HW just comes to mind, championship reign or not, though he had good reigns. He fought Frazier X3, Foreman, NortonX3, ListonX2, QuarryX2, Young, Lyle, Shavers, BugnerX2, CooperX2, the guy had star quality, went all over the world, took on all-comers, kept up a busy active schedule as heavyweight champ against good contenders when younger and again into his mid-thirties and won the title for the 3rd time from Spinks in a rematch who'd beaten him. I don't think he avoided many credible opponents. Ali was the first name to sprang to mind for me.
     
  5. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So true, my Dad used to tell me stories about Mike Jacobs and Madison Square Garden.
     
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  6. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    a truly earned Title to begin with,
    a Legit Title,

    HONEST Defences - Twice a Year and Against the REAL TOP Contender(s), not bypassed lower class fighters, or worse paid PLACED Rating for a fighter(s), for Bogus Championship fights...

    do that for at least 2-3 years, does a Great Make.
     
  7. ron davis

    ron davis Active Member Full Member

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    Victor Valle trainer of Cooney's was a very good fighter, and personally knew him. Mike Jacobs and the NYSBC protected his Champions, I'll tell you more about later.
     
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  8. ron davis

    ron davis Active Member Full Member

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    I agree, but that's not the way it worked in NY. in the 1930's and 40's and probably all the decades. Being too good of a fighter, than the Champions, is by passed / avoided at all cost.
     
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  9. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oh I know, we're very close too it as a family...

    I often wondered, what an interesting Book it would be to write, "Boxing, the Alternative History..."

    a Book about ALL the Great Contenders, Feared Fighters and Blatantly Cheated Boxers through ever Decade. It would be a Great and Interesting Book and it would throw up the Names of a Dozen or two of TOP Fighters from every decade who could have well won a World Title - GIVEN The Chance.

    it would take some amount of work though, but it would be a great edition to Boxing History
     
  10. ron davis

    ron davis Active Member Full Member

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    I never even of thought of it. A real mind opener, that deserves, to make known of the fighters that would have been Champions, if given the chance. I have verified information on this very subject.
     
  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Joe Louis is the answer. 25 title defenses still the most any division and faced all top fighters over 11 plus years.
     
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  12. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And technically Joe Louis retired as World Heavyweight Champion on March 1 1949, he made that ill fated comeback on Sept 27 1950, lost to champion Ezzard Charles by a 15 round decision, then to upcoming contender Rocky Marciano on Oct 26 1951, TKO 8. Joe owed the IRS a total of $ 90,000.00 in back taxes. The reason for his comeback.
     
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  13. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    what sort of info is that Ron?
    if you care to say.
     
  14. The Fighting Yoda

    The Fighting Yoda Active Member Full Member

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    I'm not too sure if it's not a bit dangerous to write a book about 30s & 40s mobster, cheated boxers, alternative history etc.
    On the other hand, it was a long time ago and there are already books about the mob and guys like Frankie Carbo, Blinky Palermo...
     
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  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joe Louis is indeed the gold standard.

    In more recent era's with multiple titles on the go i thought Marvin Hagler did an extremely good job too.