"Golovkin has to move up" -wrong. Lemme cut you off there. He actually doesn't, ever.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jun 10, 2016.


  1. bandeedo

    bandeedo Loyal Member Full Member

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    a real loss to team white-:lol:
     
  2. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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    Good thread. Missed this one the first time round. Totally agree

    You move up cause you've outgrown your division, not cause some internet pussies are desperate for you to lose
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Or you move up if your division truly is a) barren of challenges and b) directly antecedent to a CLEARLY stronger division wherein more serious challenges do in fact exist.

    Haters claim the above is true in Golovkin's case but they are wrong about BOTH conditions being met. A might be, and IMO probably is, but condition B is very arguably not. There is no great challenge (worth abandoning his MW legacy over) for Golovkin unless he leaps up two divisions/ 15lbs.
     
  4. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm only asking, I would be interested in your opinions. I'm not saying they are of similar ability or making any comparisons in that way.

    Carlos Monzon is considered one of the greatest middleweights of all time, some have him in their P4P lists and he didn't move up in weight and dominated his division.

    If you look at Monzon's record/resume how many household names are on it? If you're honest how many have you heard of and know much about?

    Can or will Golovkin be remembered in a similar way if he stays at middleweight for the rest of his career and just dominates.
     
  5. Willie Maeket

    Willie Maeket "40 Acres and Mule" -General William T. Sherman Full Member

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    There was no internet, major network, or PPVs when Monzon was fighting. There's is no room in the Mayweather era for that anymore. Have you ever noticed that the only guys that can have double digit losses and not be called bums are Mexicans? Everyone else is on bum status if they lose more than 4 times.
    Public perception is everything in today's market of the disposable and low attention span casuals.
     
  6. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    no major network when monzon fought? all there were then were major networks. all of whom showed boxing. you shouldn't talk about things from before you were born. you obviously have no clue what things were like.
     
  7. Willie Maeket

    Willie Maeket "40 Acres and Mule" -General William T. Sherman Full Member

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    Maybe not but fighting welterweights on the come up is not such a great thing either. It would be no issue if they kept their mouths shut when Canelo did it. It's not uncommon if this was 1985 but there is a 154 division above 147 he could have picked from too.
    If you switched Golovkin name with Mayweather it would be a different argument altogether.
    What about Ward haters trying to get him to move up after the Froch fight?

    The argument changes depending on who's name is on it.
     
  8. Willie Maeket

    Willie Maeket "40 Acres and Mule" -General William T. Sherman Full Member

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    There was no major network filming all 80 of Monzons fights. There are maybe 10 you can watch online now out of 80 but you can watch all of ODLH fights from the beginning. That's what I mean.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Well, being that we're now a few decades removed from his time, of course nobody under a certain age is going to be very familiar with the cast of good but not great contenders that were contemporary to him and form the crux of his résumé, unless they happen to be major boxing history nerds and do their research on them.

    Likewise, though, how much likelier are the likes of Bute/DeGale/Jack/Groves to be considered household names in the long run than any of Golovkin's best challengers at middleweight? Particularly let's say in thirty years, to make it apples to apples with the Escopeta comparison.

    Even if they are bigger names at the moment, it certainly isn't by wide enough a margin that over that broad a timeline - such as three decades - whatever gap exists between them won't shrink to statistical insignificance so they blend together and occupy more or less the same degree of status - namely that of Monzón's challengers: good but not great fighters of their day.
     
  10. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I can roll with that. But tell me you wouldn't be stoked if he was targeting big names north rather than big names south?

    :smoke
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Not in a blanket sense, no. Depends on whom exactly we are talking about.

    I consider Lara or J-Rock bigger stylistic threats and would be inclined to give more credit for Golovkin dominating either than DeGale/Jack/Bute/Groves.
     
  12. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

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    :good superb post
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Stop with that. Not everything relates to or needs to circle back to Mayweather.

    He is held to a higher standard and put under heavier scrutiny because he is EXCEPTIONAL - not the normative standard by which everybody should be fairly judged. That comes with being the best, just part of the deal, you get held to different standards. Nothing unfair about it. So cut it out with this irrelevant point about networks or "what flies in the Mayweather era". He is a man (an exceptionally gifted man, the greatest boxer of his generation and up there all-time) - not the defining mile-marker for an era of lesser champs.

    Monzon fought perfectly reasonably opposition by any era's standards, including this one (internet, PPV, whle kit and kaboodle, doesn't matter). The overwhelming majority of champions - even HOF or ATG caliber ones - don't have magical unicorn resumes stacked with huge names of fellow HOF members in their primes. The formula of longevity/consistency times reasonably solid quality is enough to equate to greatness - in ANY era. Hasn't changed.
     
  14. rapscalion

    rapscalion Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Now that Ward moved up to Light Heavy, there is no real reason to move up. Like you said, he has plenty of fights at Mw. At 168 all you have is Degale and **** him. Jumping up straight to 175 would be a hell of a leap and I don't see that happening
     
  15. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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    As long as you hold every fighter to that same standard then fine but we all know that you don't.