Grading Hopkins's best wins

I dare anybody on this whole forum tries to say that. I'm be waiting for that if he beats Dawson. You wonder why Headbanger hasn't mentioned Hopkins 2 wins over Pascal and that's because he's in denial and he knows it was a great win.

 

pascal is a decent win for any 175 fighter but for hopkins to do it at 47 years old elevates that victory massively, especially being in pascals back yard as well. I respect that win for hopkins and the press ups inbetween the round was one of the smartest, most legendary things i've seen in a boxing ring.

when i think of pascal though, i just think of the fight between him and froch, where he got outfought by the nottingham plodder.

in all honesty, I don't rate pascal or dawson very highly as fighters, and said for months before the fight that pascal would beat dawson.

 

So basically your saying that if Hopkins beats Dawson your opinion still won't change about Hopkins greatness than, or are you saying your opinion will change if he does it at 47?

 

what i'm saying is that pascal and dawson are good victories. for a 47 year old to do it makes them great victories. my thing with bernard is that he has never beaten an elite fighter at a fair weight, and when he has had the chance to do that (jones, taylor, calzaghe) he's come up short. what cannot be doubted is hopkins incredible longevity, what he is doing at his age is ridiculous.

 

Noticable wins
Tito
Holmes
Pavlik
Tarver
Pascal
Winky

I would say......Tito (Elite) , Tarver (Elite), Winky(Elite). Now its debtable if they were elite when Hopkins beat them, and you do have to take into consideration their weight, having said that Tarver irrespective of age/form, was not that old and hadn't taken too much punishment in his career, so there is no reason to suggest he was "past it" imo. Winkys fighting weight might of been a 154lbs, but he used to walk around at about 180 according to Roy Jones. Tito is not nessarily a bad win either if you put it into context. I mean its okay saying he was 147lblbs, he wasn't when he destroyed! Joppy, and beat up on two natural 154lbs (Reid, Vargas). Tito struggled to make 147 from what I hear, so maybe that's why he was able to make such a smooth transition through to 154lbs to 160 before he met Hopkins. Also, lets no pretend a prime Tito who is naturally 160lbs would of been able to beat Hopkins. Hopkins beat him with smarts. He didn't match him punch 4 punch and try to impose his size. Pavlik is another fighter who was having to sit in a sauna pre fight to make 160, so making 175 wouldn't of been that much of a choir for him imo.

Sure you can label those criticisms as him, and they hold some relevance, but on totality I'm willing to give him benefit of teh doubt.

 

So now your saying that Dawson and Pascal aren't elite? But your saying Taylor is elite? As far as I am concerned, Taylor would get knocked out by Dawson and Pascal if they were the same size. Roy Jones beat Hopkins, I don't have any arguement about that but Roy had blinding speed in his prime and he could punch, no shame in losing to a fighter like that. As for Calzaghe, sorry but I had Hopkins winning that fight(I also thought he beat Taylor too but I think you could make a better arguement for Taylor than Joe because the fights were tight on the scorecards) and if anything Calzaghe should of givin him a rematch and I think he knew that he was lucky to get that decision, that's why he avoided the rematch. Calzaghe would beat Pascal IMO, but Dawson would be a very tough fight for him and that's who Joe should of fought if he wanted to enhance and put the seal on his legacy. Remember Dawson was undefeated at the time and it would of been a perfect time to make that fight. Dawson is better than every fighter Joe has ever fought in his whole career, except Hopkins of course but I think Dawson would of presented a tougher challenge for Joe than Hopkins and that's primiarily because of the styles. Dawson is taller, stronger, rangyier, and he could match Joe's speed. To tell you the truth I think Dawson is faster than Joe, Joe's workrate is better though. But like I said, Taylor and Calzaghe losses were debatable but I will agree with you on the Jones one, he did lose that fight. A young Roy would also knock Calzaghe out and Jermaine Taylor IMO.

 

Hops career is more impressive for the 10year span of holding the IBF MW title, and unifying against Tito. He fought many "quality" opponents during that span, and was dominant while doing it.

Also, the fact that outside his first fight that I know nothing about, he only has one loss that can't be disputed.. Roy Jones Jr. Otherwise you can make solid arguments he beat Taylor in both fights and Calzaghe. He should have got the nod in Mercado 1 and Pascal 1 as well.

It's not impressive for specific wins, but as an overall resume.. it's very good.

Guys get too caught up in the beating Elite fighters or World-Class fighters business. World-Class and Elite fighters don't lose often, that's why they are Elite or World-Class.

Not a lot of guys could have fought that 10yr span without losing the way Hopkins did.

 

..

 

Selling him short there. Tito was a middleweight and his destruction of Joppy proved that both his speed and power has maintained it's potency at 160. Hopkins wasn't too big for Tito, he was simply too good for Tito.

Pavlik's 2nd fight with Taylor was at 168 and he proved to be effective against Taylor. His fight with Hopkins was simply a scenario in which Bernard Hopkins matched up very well with and his skills were simply the reason he won.

Considering his fought him years later, at his disadvantage I'd say it's a moot point. The other thing is that Joe was simply being used as a pawn to get Roy Jones Jr to come to the table. When that didn't happen it came down to the money. And it wasn't enough.

:deal

:deal

Tito was legit at 160. If BHop weren't around, Tito would have unified at 147, 154 and 160 and nobody would have called him a blown up welterweight.

Are you saying that Tarver the reigning LHW Champion was not an elite fighter?

Trinidad was an elite fighter who dominated and unified at 147, 154 and was on his way to doing the same in 160 before Hopkins had a hand in it.

Kelly Pavlik was an undeafeted Middleweight champ who went to 168 to rematch and defeat the "elite" Jermain Taylor in a competitive fight only to lose a few months later to Bernard Hopkins; is that somehow not a great win?

Pascal?

Glenn Johnson?

Wright was a good win as well, not elite but good win. The weight benefitted Hopkins but his age at the time it took place benefitted Winky.

De la Hoya was not an elite win because he was not a legit 160 fighter. He was still good, but he was watered down.

Overall he has a few elite wins, considerable depth and considerable longevity spanning from 160 to 175.

 

Roy was undefeated for 14 years from 1989 right through 2003. He didn't take mini vacations like some and was far more entertaining inside the ring. I would take (watch) a prime Roy over a Floyd anyday.

 

hopkins never beat an elite fighter at a fair weight, tarver is hopkins best victory but he aint an elite fighter unless your a blind, deluded, gullabe, ignorant, narrow minded, brain washed american :deal

we saw how elite tito was at 160 when he got his head boxed off by winky

all tito has is one concrete handwrap victory over joppy at 160 but who the **** has joppy ever beat, list me joppys 5 best wins :think

added to that check out his embarrassing crybaby bull**** against allan, echolls, calzaghe, jones, and dawson :crybaby

hopkins will be remembered for outstanding longevity and a domination of the weakest middleweight era in history, and then losing twice against the best 160 fighter he fought since he lost to jones :deal

people need to remember that there has been 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, NINE occasions when hopkins got into the ring and has not done enough to emerge the winner :yep

 

Flopkins lacks wins over prime world-class fighters. He is a cherry-picker. His resume is very thin.

Flopkins struggled a bit against RJJ in their second fight and he did his usually crying and faking once again - Calzaghe played with RJJ....

 

Undefeated except when he lost to Montell Griffin

 

crap point though. Theres people on this forum who could play with RJJ these days. Theres no brownie points in facing a legend once you know they are shot to ****, and a **** way for Joe to end his career, but paid well!

 

Tito a
Holmes b+
Pavlik a- (due to the weight)
Tarver b+ (wasn't properly prepared)
Pascal a- (world class but due to the age barrier I give Hopkins an extra boost not quite elite though)
Winky a