Great boxers who killed themselves?

They didnt ,my sources are Joe Louis by Joe Louis,andJoe Louis The Great Black Hope by Richard Bak which are yours?

 

I'm not going around the barn chasing this one.

 

You're talking in circles.

He didn't have to pay taxes on training expenses. And he shouldn't have had to pay taxes on the purse because he donated all of it to the government relief fund.

But they taxed him 85% on the purse (donation) and charged him fees when he didn't pay up. But he didn't pay them because he earned nothing from either of those fights.

That was the whole problem.

He couldn't pay 85 percent of his purse in taxes to the government when he gave all of his purse (after expenses) to the GOVERNMENT.

There was no income.

 

My source is Joe Louis, too. He was taxed on his purse for both fights. But both purses were donated. He shouldn't have been taxed on it. It wasn't income. It was a donation TO THE GOVERNMENT.

 

Nowhere in his autobiography ,which I have in front of me now ,does Louis claim he paid tax on those two fights, nor that he was liable to do so.But you have the last word and argue with yourself about it.

 

I’ll be that guy.

If you are in the U.S. and are thinking about suicide, please call the suicide hotline: 1-800-273-8255.

You can also find that (or use the chat) by googling suicide hotline. If you are outside the U.S. and need help, please google and find it. Hopefully where you are has similar services.

I called a suicide hotline many years ago when I was in a very dark place and a caring person stayed on the phone with me for a long time and got me through a rough night. I got help. I’m better now.

I urge anyone having these thoughts or feelings to do the same.

 

You don’t have to be an expert in tax law.

The simple contention appears to be if Louis was or wasn’t taxed on monies donated directly or ultimately donated.

Bottom line - donations and expenses are not income, or at least should not be deemed as income for obvious reasons. Likewise with training expenses.

Even if not taxed, he did donate those monies after all - which history proved he would’ve been better off keeping in order to pay whatever other accrued taxes that were left unpaid.

As to Louis being treated like a normal citizen - in broad terms, no. In light of Johnson, Louis had to be so much more perfect in the public’s eyes to ultimately secure his title shot. A different road to that of the more privileged.

Aside from material donations, there are also the enormous intangible contributions Joe made - as a beloved sporting icon, the symbolic victory over Schmeling, his publicised roles in the army etc.

It’s been repeated over the years how the donations were taxed - not that repetition necessarily makes it correct - but it’s interesting that the IRS (as far as I know) never defended itself against the claims. One could guess due to reasons of confidentiality but Joe’s tax issues otherwise were splattered all over the place anyway.

For Louis, the worry re outstanding back taxes gave rise to or at least exacerbated pre existing issues such as depression, addictions and paranoia. Hardly a comfortable retirement.

 

Papke was a bad one, first shot and killed his estranged wife , when she left him " no man is ever going to say he had Billy Papkes wife " then turned the gun on himself. stay safe .

 

I keeping with the main issue.

A few great fighters have committed suicide, and that is a scary topic.

I have personally known three people who took their own lives, and all thee came totally out of the blue.

I was like "how the f##k did that happen!

If you flag somebody up as a risk, then they are probably trying to sort the problem out on some level.

I know a woman who attempted suicide, then in hospital she got COVID, and she was absolutely terrified that she was going to die!

Studies show, that people who attempted suicide and fail, are almost invariably glad that they failed!

 

The problem was deeper than that. The purses he donated were combined to around 100k and he ended up owing over one million. There were a lot of other issues at hand.

https://www.mackinac.org/V1997-22

 

I definitely hear you but in a lot of instances it may not be an apples to apples, reasonably viewed healthy mind to healthy mind, comparison - meaning, those otherwise physically healthy people (divorcing the pain ridden elderly and terminally ill )who have committed suicide might be deemed mentally ill - even if only by default in light of their decision that some might say is devoid of rational thinking.

It just struck me to look up something - admittedly a cursory check but now I feel somewhat vindicated. At least one study suggested that psychopaths are basically - immune to suicide - no small factor (which I assumed) being their absolute lack of empathy and/or remorse. Sociopaths are similar though they do have a measure of feelings.

Point being, some feel a LOT more than others - not a bad thing and charitable acts are more likely to spring from such people but it could make them more prone to depressive, remorseful and unhealthy thoughts etc. Anyway, so much more to be said on the subject, def. not one for black and white judgments.

Just one other thing,

I’ve noticed among the rock’n’roll fraternity that there is sometimes an implied but distinct lack of sympathy for fellow musicians who ended their lives. I guess the surviving rockers are measuring their being resistant to their own trials and tribulations and promoting their ability to push through - hello Kieth Richards - but then a lot of those guys might be certifiable psychos and socios anyway who didn’t necessarily help others, only themselves and perhaps they also dismissed the value of the crucial helping hands they were afforded - hands which are not there for a lot of people in their time of greatest need.

 

Randy Turpin, Middleweight Champion, unsuccessfully tried to kill his daughter, then successfully killed himself. The reasons appeared to be Depression, Bankruptcy, and Hounding from the Federal Tax people over back taxes.

Ignore that dude. Trust me. You matter more than you know.

Find something you're good at and get into it! Find something you enjoy and do it! If you don't know what they are, think back to your childhood, because all the clues were there.

Life is a great gift! Live it!

 

My point was just that suicide is a bad idea. So much so that even boxers -- not the most neurologically or psychologically healthy population -- recognize this by usually choosing not to kill themselves.

 

Sure, understood. I wasn’t refuting your point which is a valid address, rather, just expanding on the theme, the points I made I think being also applicable to the confined community of the boxing fraternity.

I’m guessing everyone has read/heard that of all vocations, the suicide rate is supposed to be highest among dentists. Though, I’ve not looked into it beyond that alleged statistic.

 

Huh. That's weird. Wonder why.