Great fight! Charlie Powell vs Norkus

"Why take credit from Powell?"

He lost to Roy Harris.

 

"Powell was green as the grass we walk on,"

Powell was a prospect, I think 11-0-1 with 11 KO's when he fought Norkus.

Powell's best opponents were Al Spaulding (who had beaten Rusty Payne three times), Rocky Jones (who had beaten Roland LaStarza and Tommy Harrison), and Frank Buford (who had beaten Clarence Henry, Turkey Thompson, Bob Dunlap, Joe Kahut, Willie Bean, and Abel Cestac). All were on the downhill slope, but they were the sorts of fading trial horses young prospects fight. Not really bad opposition for an inexperienced fighter.

Compare to Alejandro Lavorante going into his fight with Zora Folley. Lavorante was 12-1 with 10 KO's. He had beaten Jose Giogetti by decision, and KO'd Duke Sabedong.

Not much to choose between these two. I would give the smallest of edges to Powell off beating better competition.

Of course, Norkus KO'd Powell.

While Lavorante KO'd Folley.

 

AP said he quit

"Cuban Nino Valdes won the companion 10 rounder on the all-heavyweight card when Briton Brian London called it quits after seven rounds. The crowd of 11,000 wasn't happy with the bout, booing, clapping and stamping their feet as London announced he was quitting because of cuts. There were no knockdowns." -Associated Press

You said London looks better but haven’t seen the entire round by round. AP had the fight scored even after 7, 3 rounds apiece 1 even. Where is your evidence Valdes cut London by butting?

Valdes London seems like far from a robbery unlike pastrano-London where pastrano was schooling London until London Head butted him on purpose in order to win

• United Press International reported: "Pastrano, of Miami, Fla., was ahead on points when referee Jack Hart stopped the fight at the end of the fifth round at Harringay Arena because of a two-inch cut over the American's left eye. London had butted Pastrano in the fourth. Pastrano . . . ducked, rode with the punches and stung back with his left. But he lacked the power to deliver a decisive blow on London's big, inviting chin."
• Angelo Dundee, Pastrano's manager and trainer, was furious over the stoppage. "How can the referee tell whether my boy's hurt," he said. "He ain't no doctor."

Under today’s rules, London loses that fight to pastrano.



Yes You’re right, Valdes doesn’t look impressive here. He was 35 years old, had vision problems, and would retire after this fight. But how impressive does London look? He couldn’t defeat a severely declined former contender in his final fight who arguably had vision problems.

I don’t know why you are defending London so much here. He was a weak fighter who was lucky to receive two gift title shots despite not ever obtaining a high ranking for a period longer than 2 months. I doubt RING magazine ever placed Brian London in their top 5. NBA has him briefly at number 2 before immediately moving him down to 7th after his loss to Cooper

Is their any doubt the Valdes who outbrawled Charles in 53 would have smashed London to pieces?

 

What is this Edward? you’re way better than this.

Buford: he was so washed up he had lost 6 of his previous 7 fights and after the Powell loss would lose his next 8 fights in a row before retiring!

Spaulding: final fight of his career coming off 3 losses in a row

Jones: final fight of his career coming off a 4 fight losing streak

These guys were finished, they were cannon fodder for any fighter.

Powell was one of he best athletes ever in high school, but he wasn’t a fighter, despite boxing in gyms since age of 12, he had no amateur experience. He was green as grass at 11 fights when norkus fought him. Norkus win means nothing. Powell destroyed him 4 years later once he was seasoned up a bit.


Lavorante was a far and away better than Powell was in his 11th pro fight. He had a nice amateur career, and was far more experienced than Powell.

Jack Dempsey had spotted Lavorante’s talent on a sojourn to Venezuela, where Jack saw the Argentinean youngster in several amateur fights in Caracas. Alejandro’s countryman, Alex Miteff, a solid world-class operator in a ten-year career running from 1957 to 1967, didn’t want to fight Lavorante in the amateurs because the handsome one was “too tall” at 6’3”.




But ya, keep picking on folleys career Edward while you defend the likes of Norkus and London. Two fighters not fit to shine the shoes of folleys entire career.

 

It's to feature two lesser contenders in the 50's who staged a fun, exciting contest, as opposed to treading over the same ground yet again. Sometimes, it's fun to discuss different fighters, y'know?

 

Lavorante of the Folley fight crushes Powell of the norkus fight. One was a good amateur fighter, the other was a baseball/football player.

Lavorante actually beat a prime Folley, who is a million levels above Charlie norkus. Folley could probably beat norkus with 1 hand tied behind his back

 

Ahh one of your favorites Edward. At least you finally admitted Zora Folley had the better career than Roy Harris

 

Valdes was higher rated than London by NBA and RING when London got the title shot.

Valdes at least had a punchers chance. London brought nothing to the table at all. Damato knew it

 

One was a contender, the other was so green he practically was an embryo

 

"How impressive does London look?"

Not very. London's second shot was just a keep busy fight between Ali's defenses against Cooper and Mildenberger. Sort of a bum of the month club tour. I don't know who was denied a shot because London got one, I guess for Ali's entourage money.

The first shot? Charlie Powell would have been a better choice. Of course, choklab has a good point. After the top three Americans contenders had all lost in Europe, and only one non-American had fought for the title in 19 years, and only one European in 21 years, it was overdue for the "world" championship to be again a world championship. Valdes might have been okay, despite being American "owned" but he blew the fight to Powell. Defending against Folley or Powell? And if that guy upset Patterson, would he have defended against the #1 contender Johansson, or would the title have been in an American rematch deep freeze for another two years.

Honestly, I don't think London should have gotten a shot, but my reason is that it was Johansson who deserved the first shot. At least London proved not to be a threat to Patterson.

 

The less experienced guy had twenty pounds on the fringe contender-who had already had established himself as somone who could get dragged into wars with lesser fighters. It was a nice little cross-roads match. And, it was a fun fight. Sometimes it's fun to remember fights like those.

 

"London brought nothing to the table at all."

Good. Screwing around the #1 contender Johansson like they screwed around Machen would have been a travesty. It would have been really raw if the best Euro contender since Schmeling was sidetracked for no good reason. Johansson KO'd Machen and Machen had KO'd Valdes. Johansson KO'd Cooper and Cooper beat Folley. Johansson was the obvious logical contender, and I don't think anyone else was close.

In a lighter division a warm-up fight is over-the-weight, so the top contender isn't necessarily put on hold. In the heavyweights, you can't go over-the-weight, so if a warm-up is felt to be needed, it is best that it be with a pushover.

Machen should have gotten the shot in early 1958. No one has yet explained who demanded the elimination fight with Folley. Machen was clearly a notch above going into 1958.

 

Norkus must have been quite a celebrity to go by only one name like Cher, Madoona and Prince.

 

"Lavorante was far and away better than Powell was in his 11th pro fight."

Tell me a fighter Lavorante had beaten who held wins over fighters as good as Clarence Henry, Turkey Thompson, or Roland LaStarza. Powell beat men who beat those men. Seems reasonable to point this out.

Norkus and London. "Two fighters not fit to shine the shoes of Folley's entire career."

London actually beat Folley in 1967. I know. Folley was 36. But London was 33.

Miteff feels Lavorante "too tall" at 6' 3"

an inch shorter than Powell.

Going into the Norkus fight Powell was being talked up as a possible coming champion. He had size and athleticism certainly, which did impress a great many.

 

"Lavorante actually beat a prime Folley"

totally true.

Doesn't obviate the fact that Lavorante was 12-1 and had beaten no one of note.

"baseball/football player"

and track and basketball star.

but why did he go into pro boxing?

This from an online biography--

"Charlie actually started boxing at the age of 11 or 12. As a youngster, he would get up early before school and jog down to Archie Moore's house, train with the future champ, return home, eat, and go to school. He earned extra money for his family during WWII by boxing at the San Diego Marine Corps and Naval bases."

So it seems he might have sparred with Archie Moore. One might learn something there.

Truthfully, all this business about amateur boxing--are you certain Powell didn't do some amateur boxing?

As a pro, there is no doubt that Powell before fighting Norkus had beaten men who had beaten really top level guys only a few years earlier. Lavorante hadn't done the same before fighting Folley.