Great in more than 2 divisions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jun 13, 2011.


  1. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Shane Mosley, LW and WW, he could of been amazing if he'd stopped off at JWW.

    De La Hoya, I struggle with this one, Quartey, Vargas, Whittaker, Chavez, although you could argue that he lost to Ike, and both Chavez and Pea were past their best (I see that as beyond argument) also to flip the coin, you could say he beat Trinidad and SSM (at 154)
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I think oscar is a great at lww, ww and lmw.

    Mosley, has to be considered at lw doesn't he altho he never fought stevie johnston.

    Not sure how I view him at ww, he's lost to forest twice in his prime there and vernon is far from great. I mean aside from beating hoya and margo he hasn't done much and i'm not sure that's enough. He certainly ranks below duran and I wouldn't call him a ww great.
     
  3. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you underestimate the depth of lw, lww and ww here. DLH might make it at ww but he didn´t do enough at lww and lmw, well, what actually did he do there? Beating a Trinidad-destroyed Vargas and picking up some vacant belts? Nah, not enough. Oscar is great, a warrior who took on everyone and a great business man but the only weightclass he might make the Top25 is ww. Great weightjumper but his single weight standing suffers due to that.

    Similar with Mosley, he had a great, dominant run at lw but over aweful competition. What did he do above outside of beating DLH? Not much, not enough to warrant such a high ranking in those weightclasses. Mosley IMO isn´t great. Very good, yes, but not great.
     
  4. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'll agree with you there, thinking about it Shane's resume is quite thin, it was a weak era at LW, though H2H I think he's able to hold his own against most from that weightclass. De La Hoya was a great win, and Vargas the first time was reasonable, Margarito and Mayorga are also decent. (I see Margarito as just decent because he was taylor made for Shane.) He really should of pushed for the Tito Trinidad fight.
     
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Sugar Ray Leonard (If he'd stayed at 154 lbs after the Kalule win)
    Roberto Duran (For one night,he was great at 147 lbs)
    Alexis Arguello
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Well my boundary is top 25.

    I think hoya's pitstop at lww was very impressive. Chavez and gonzalez were very highly regarded when he beat them both.

    Lmw is a shallow division so great at that weight doesn't mean much. But I can't think of 25 lmw's greater than hoya.

    Shane at lw scrapes the barrel I think, sneaks in at the bottom of the list. Wouldn't rank him anywhere else tho.
     
  7. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, DLH´s wins over Gonzalez and Chavez were nice but that division exists for now 80 years, do you really think there weren´t 25 fighters who did more than him? It´s quite a deep division actually.

    Yeah, lmw is shallow but does that mean him with wins over Vargas and Mayorga and a loss to Mosley as his best work is enough to get a ranking there? When other fighters even so don´t have the big names but spent a career there? I don´t think so.

    Mosley may creep in at 25, there are arguments based on his dominance but, well, I just think his competition isn´t there.
     
  8. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    i think armstrong is the most clear-cut candidate. he could be in the top ten at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight.

    i don't think anyone else could boast such a high ranking in three of the 'original' eight divisions. charles could be top twenty in three, with a question mark over his middleweight resume. langford could be top twenty in three divisions as well, light heavyweight and heavyweight are pretty certain, and then it's 'take your pick' for number three. fitzsimmons is the only other candidate for me.
     
  9. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    just realised that i mentioned four of my top six pound for pounders... no coincidence i'd say. the other two, robinson and greb, were true greats in two divisions.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    There could be, I haven't made a lww list. But certainly his name would be one i'd consider until I found 25 better names.

    At lmw, the shallowness means his run of performances against castillejo, vargas, mayorga and mosley are enough imo. Very few great fighters made their name there. At 154 and below he has consistently performed at a high level until the pac fight. His only losses where contentious at best and competitive at worst. I certainly don't think that 25 greater fighters in that division could be found.
     
  11. DKD

    DKD Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duran and Chavez.
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    finding a long list greater than 2 divisions is harder than it looks IMO.

    Bodhi could only identify Fitz and Armstrong.
    I have named perhaps Hoya and Ross.

    I'd say Langford, Chavez and Charles are a shout.

    After that it gets difficult. Has Jones done enough at middleweight? Did Pac do enough at Flyweight and Superfeatherweight? Did Floyd do enough at Lightweight or Lightwelterweight?

    I understand this is subjective and that's what makes it interesting.

    the list for greats in 2 divisions is long enough when comparing non traditionals. but to get a great across 3 divisions is a rare thing in boxing IMO.