Great trainers and their alleged disappearance from the sport

I don't know about that. Over 45 years that I have been wasting time in gyms, I have seen a lot of change in how boxing is taught and I'm not real impressed with it, and I often hear the same from those that have been around longer than I have that are still involved. Much less attention to detail, too much inclination to get "advanced" ahead of the process, too much inclination to try and create "only I do this" gimmicks. Too many shortcuts taken, too many things overlooked.

One of my pet peeves is the way I see 'defense' taught, like it is a separate thing from offense and proper punching technique and that putting your hands up is all there is to it. I attribute it to a lack of understanding and a lack of patience, the former on the part of the teacher, the latter on the part of teachers and students.

That is just my opinion, based on 44 years in gyms and 26 years of teaching boxing in five states, having been in maybe 300 different gyms.

 

That could very well be the case. Very few make a living from boxing, be it boxers or trainers. The vast majority go to work then go to the gym. Those that make a living from their gym owe that to boxercise classes or working as personal trainers, not boxing. Most guys that I know that run actual boxing gyms do it out of love and pay out of pocket to keep it going. What do you do, tell a 10 year old "you're too poor to learn to fight"?

 

Like I said massive culture change. Back in the 30s or 40s it was common for a guy to have a hundred fights. That can be attributed to the popularity of the sport back then which gave fighters the opportunity to make more of a living off of boxing rather than having a couple fights per year even at the entry stages of professional fighting.

 

I read an article about 12 months ago or more claiming as such. It mentioned quotes from names such as Larry Holmes but i cannot find it now. Something about every street corner had a good trainer repeating similar stuff yada yada. I think (90% sure) it was in one of my mags but i am never going to find the time sorry.

I do totally agree too.

 

I can argue that fighters today it is not uncommon to have 100-200+ amateur fights unlike fighters of old

 

What 10 names would you instantly put forward as an example of such in very recent history?

 

I'm referencing strictly professional fights.

 

I saw some very good trainers early on so maybe my perspective is skewed. During the 80s I never really thought about it but when I started teaching it myself I took a look around and was very disappointed. I started to realize that much of what I had been taught and observed was the best way of doing things.

The old guys died off and many in the new generation don't respect the old ways and think that they are inventing new things. My friend that sparred with Floyd thought that until I showed him how so much of what Floyd does was being done years before, and the Mayweather's knew that. But many guys don't know or respect the history and then they get impatient.

But boxing is strange. I have seen a guy that spends a great deal of time and effort teaching boxers to hold their left arm exactly like Ricardo Lopez held his and because of that many people think he really knows boxing. But that has nothing to do with what made Lopez so good; that is harder to understand and harder to teach. Jem Driscoll, I think, wrote about the same thing in 1919.

And out of what I see as a bit of a mess currently, I expect some guys will figure it out in their own way and create good fighters, like others did before them. It is just a down time right now.

 

I really liked this post! You obviously have had a lot of experience with different trainers and gyms over the years, and you sound like a man, who really loves the sport. I can't claim the same kind of experience - but I, too, have been hooked on boxing for a very long time.

2 weeks ago, on the 3rd of this month, marked the 55th anniversary of my father taking me to attend my first pro show. Emile Griffith was in town, and my dad (who had boxed a bit as an amateur) couldn't miss that - and though I was only 11 years old, he, thankfully, brought me along! We had been to several amateur shows together, but, as said, this was my first introduction to professional boxing.

Now to say that I was impressed with Griffith (who that night only had a journeyman in front of him) would be the understatement of the year! The thing is, that I can't really remember HOW he boxed - only that I was terribly impressed. If he had retired after that fight, and there was no film of him... well, I would possibly be sitting here today, claiming he was the greatest fighter who ever lived!

I have of course since seen the film that today is available from his fights - and though he certainly was a very good boxer, I now realize, that he wasn't really the GOAT.

My point is, that (as we all know) early experiences are often the strongest. So I can't really blame oldtimers for thinking that THEIR time was the best. This is only natural. And I'm not claiming that trainers today are better than decades ago - but I just don't see, why we automatically should assume, that they are worse. I mean, they have over 100 years of history to build on, and (unlike the oldtimers) 100 years of the best boxers on film to study - just a few clicks away on YouTube. It's hard to believe, that they are not using this to become better/more knowledgeable trainers.

And finally (before I'm boring you too much - or is that already too late?):

A lot of posters here are seeing the development of our sport from a strictly American perspective. All we hear, is how TV killed boxing, how there are far fewer clubs and gyms, and how interest isn't what it used to be. We don't hear about boxing booming in many other countries - some of which didn't even allow pro boxing a few decades ago.

And look at some of the fine boxers we have had just this decade. Roman Gonzalez and Rigo are obviously not what they used to be (the same is possibly true for Golovkin), but a few years ago they were both brilliant... as was Pacquiao, of course. Loma looks a bit special too (to put it mildly!). Usyk and young Gassiev are fine fighters - as is Bivol, who may turn out to be the best of the light heavyweights. Many great fighters around the world. Oh, I nearly forgot... how about that Japanese guy, Inoue? Wow, if he isn't something, I don't know who is! Power, combinations, body-punching, cutting off the ring... nothing seems to be missing! So there must be at least some trainers out there who know what they are doing. Even today. imo.

 

Anatoli Lomachenko is an example of modern great trainer. He has worked with Loma and Usyk in amateurs, still works with Loma. They are gifted guys for sure, but their skills were developed under Analoli Lomachenko.

There were, are and will be great trainers. Maybe some of them aren't still considered as 'great', but when all is said and done, they'd be in that discussion.

Unfortunately, Teddy Atlas isn't one of them.

 

This all seems from a very US and Western Europe perspective... and it all rings true in regards to a lot of the fighters coming from those places.

But what about Eastern Europe, Russia, Latin America and Southeast Asia? They seem to crank out some great products, skilled, championship level fighters.

 

Experience is experience

 

Granted not all these guys are American but all had extensive amateur careers.....if you take all the early learning fights of the old school professionals (granted some had amateur careers) and replace those early fights with non career penalizing amateur fights against the same level of talent.....the point I am making is yes once they become pro the new generation starts to navigate to bigger money with less pro fights but those with extensive amateur careers have the learning fights out of the way....I will say that the era of very many amateurs having 400+ fights like Donald Curry may be a thing of the past at one time 200+ fights was very normal...I myself had a little over 200 when I turned pro.

Lomanchenko
Usyk
Rigondeaux
Wlad Klitchko
Vitali Klitchko
Povetkin
T Adamek
Kovalev
Andre Ward
Andre Dirrell
Anthony Dirrell
Danny Garcia
GGG
Mike Perez
Jean Pascal
Provodnikov
Gervonta Davis
Gary Russell Jr

Luke Campbell?
Errol Spence?