Great trainers and their alleged disappearance from the sport

There's a big difference and I don't think I need to explain very in depth why that is. If experience was experience then why wouldn't standout amateurs who have over 200 amateur fights get a title shot on their first pro fight?

Everything about the amateur system is different from the pro system. Amateur fights are focused on quantity. Pro fights take into account quality.

 

Actually by the time Stillman's gym closed....trainers started going down from boxing's golden age of 20s thru 50s

 

God I hope you don't have to explain since I am one of those guys who did both their is not that much of a learning curve in changing from amateur to pro I thought pro was easier because you could get away with more but the same goes to the other guy......pros have time to implement a strategy and body punches make a difference....moving around the ring is the same, slipping punches is the same, throwing punches is the same, power and speed are the same, range and angles are the same....number of fights does not mean you have talent kid but time in the ring in front of people is important...don't underestimate amateur unless you have done both.....the similarities the sport is the same if you are a world class amateur you will more than likely be a world class pro....if you notice some of the best pros had amateur careers which in many ways replaces the early career developing learning fights.....so like I said experience is experience. Some pro fights are more like toughman contests and rarely until you get into the bigger shows do you see higher quality refs, judges and shows organized into what most fans recognize of course people who have fought know this.....

 

What are you trying to argue here? It would be more helpful if you could organize your ideas into seperate paragraphs. What I gather from your post is you're saying that strategy in a pro fight is different from amateur. We know this. That a world class talent in the amateurs will more than likely be a world class pro, not necessarily but I get the point. That lower level professional fights are targeted towards a cheaper crowd so are therefore much more relaxed in terms of professionalism. We know this.

So were you a world class talent or just had 30 something local amateur fights and competed in a few tournaments then decided to go pro once amateurs didn't pan out? What was your record?

I hope you enjoy the memories.

 

Man you are a smart ass the response is clear just not clear to you when someone disagrees with you.....I had over 200 fights I lost roughly 15-20 I was a junior olympic bronze medalist, silver medal and the 3rd year gold medalist, 2x Silver gloves champion 1x silver gloves national champion, 2x Golden Gloves runner up and 3x Golden Gloves regional champion......1 x National GG runner up, wasn't good enough to win the US team boxoffs though I was invited to the Olympic boxoffs in 1988 for the Seoul team selection....I had a style more suited for pros since I sparred with mostly pros and was offered a few invitations to train and fight.....I was burned out when I turned pro and was tired after 13 yrs of boxing and 9 yrs of folk wrestling I started to party and date and blew off training.....I got some jobs sparring with pros, started to ref after getting my license, judging and fought about 5-6 times and quit training and faded away from competing went into the military. Started to train with the World Class Athlete Program boxing WCAP and started training fighters there and outside the military.

 

I'm not a smart ass, you just can't communicate properly. I advise you don't get nasty because I guarantee I'll win that contest. On that note I don't think we disagree anywhere here. We both agree that amateur fights are great experience. We disagree about what level that translates to in the pros.

That's very impressive congratulations. Is there any links to anything on boxrec or wikipedia where I could read about you? Even if it's just a name saying you got so far.

I'm sorry to hear that. Still very great accomplishments that you have.

That's awesome. Do you have any advice for someone starting out in amateur fights? Strategy, what to expect, etc.

 

My advice to someone who wanted to start boxing is go to get in shape find a good amateur team gym and find a good trainer with your best interest at heart....if he says it isn't the sport for you then take a look in the mirror if they say you have promise then commit to it, it isn't always about heart and isn't always about talent sometime your heart will get you hurt without the talent and sometimes with talent and the heart isn't enough.....don't look past your goal if your goal is to win the championship tournaments then focus on that if it is to make the Olympic team then focus on that....I am not the only one on this board.

Te biggest difference IMO between amateurs and pros is the distance of the fights, strategies that favor certain styles, the fights are slower, the punishment hurts more and is prolonged for example liver shots are more common, referees are not always as well trained and certified, promoters at the lower level comps are at times meat grinders, fighters with power and good chins are more willing to take punishment without concern from skittish refs.

 

I agree. I also think Valee may have been too protective of Cooney along with his managers. Could have messed with his confidence.

 

Yeah that's it enough can't be said for fighters learning.....too bad in the pros they don't take into account for an amateur background their is no equivalent for talent and time in the ring amateur or pro.....you can have a nobody fighter with no background except 6mos. in the gym step into a pro ring with a no pro fight guy and on paper they are equals but in reality some of these guys step in the ring with no pro fights but 200 high end amateur fights against world class talent. This is why I say John Mugabi is seen as a puncher only when he won a silver medal at the Olympics....you cannot get to that level as an amateur without good skills he had a pedigree...he became a puncher in the pros because pro building fights fights give you time against alot of fighters and 1 knockdown can win the round....years and years of pivoting, moving side to side, slipping, staying out of range, knowing when the other guy is in your range....throwing combos over and over.

At the end of the day for quite a few fighters with relatively low fight pro careers have hundreds of amateur fights and years learning the craft without professional penalties....the differences between the two are minimal.....even in the old days fighters had to learn to move, throw jabs, block punches, hook, right cross they just did it in club fights getting paid.

 

Impressive stuff mate.

 

Would you agree that some guys have a short pro career because they have had such a long amateur one and probably too many fights before turning pro? Not all, obviously Loma and GGG are exceptions, but it seems to me, some long time amateurs go into burn out pretty early once they turn pro.

 

Not only have you impressive credentials ,you have shown yourself to be an impressive judge of character!lol

 

Thank you, you're advice means a lot. One more thing, what should I expect for the first couple amateur fights starting out? I've always had it built up in my head that it takes a lot of skill and that I would get outclassed although I've never had a problem in the gym with skills. Are fighters pretty basic at that level? It's sort of an anxiety thing and it's pretty much what stopped me from competing a year ago, I let it all go to my head and made up excuses for why I shouldn't compete I think even though my coach really really wanted me to.

 

I think having fights cements the learning. You can do something a billion times on the mitts, on the heavy bag, in the mirror, get in the ring to sparring, it is like it never existed. Then you do it another million times, the guy does it in sparring, gets a fight and forgets. You can't really be sure that something is learned until it is performed under fire. This is especially true when you are training a guy that had, for example, 150 amateur fights and was either taught or picked up habits that need to be changed. And you can double that if he was successful with those bad habits.

Boxing is strange in that way. You would think that when you drop your jab and get punched in the face, you would be very careful not to drop your jab. You would think. But that is not always the case.