Toney: 73-6-3 44 KO's. IBF Middleweight champion (6 defenses), IBF Supermiddleweight champion (3 defenses), IBF Cruiserweight champion. Wins over Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum 2x, Vasili Jirov, Evander Holyfield, Iran Barkley, Reggie Johnson, Merqi Sosa, Prince Charles Williams, Doug DeWitt, and Tim Littles. Losses to Roy Jones Jr, Montel Griffin 2x, Drake Thadzi, and Samuel Peter 2x. He has a "Win" over John Ruiz, which would have earned him a Heavyweight title, but it was declared a No Decision after he tested positive for steroids. His official win over Dave Tiberi is also regarded as one of the worst robberies of the 90's. Otherwise, all of his losses outside of the Jones and 2nd Peter fight were close calls. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLqQrGDQhw[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EomUKpfEgB8[/ame] Barrera: 67-7 44 KO's. 2-time WBO Super Bantamweight champion (13 defenses), WBC Featherweight champion, WBC Super Featherweight champion (4 defenses), IBF Super Featherweight champion. Wins over Erik Morales 2x, Naseem Hamed, Kennedy McKinney, Johnny Tapia, Paulie Ayala, Kevin Kelley, Robbie Peden, Rocky Juarez 2x, Mzonke Fana, and Enrique Sanchez. Losses to Manny Pacquiao 2x, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Junior Jones 2x, and Amir Khan. His first win and one loss to Morales are both debatable decisions, Barrera scoring the only clear win of the series in the rubber match. His loss to Marquez was also a close fight that could have gone his way (especially if the knockdown had been called correctly). [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63J9XmJWRg[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2BiK8DwBEw[/ame] Who's greater?
Toney at his best was better and more talented, but he was less consistant and had losses MAB probably wouldn't pick up. I think Toney has the best win list. He also has a few fights he probably deserved the W in - Peter 1, Griffin. Toney has the better longevity of the 2
These two are, at their best, two of my top ten favorites to watch. Very eye-pleasing styles, to me. Toney might be the better man, best for absolute best, and at that I'm not so sure at all. That said, Barrera career edges it, for me, largely because of Toney's weight problems and worst nights. Frankly, it's funny how much the negativity of MAB's losses seems to have depreciated. From the first after Jones to the last. It seems like every fighter has had their status elevated. Barrera's career as a whole looks much better to me. Toney's difficulty to show up against guys he damned well should have beaten has hurt him in comparisons like this, whereas when he shows up with a genuine spirit and the preparation to support it, we've seen him prove he's a legit great, imo. But part of greatness is bringing what you can to the table and getting the best out of it and Barrera stomps James on that account.
For the record, I think they're pretty comparable across the board, which is why I made the thread. Both beat a highly talented if not necessarily great fighter (Nunn and Hamed), both were able to slightly better a rival great (McCallum and Morales), both were easily beaten in their primes by the best fighter they faced (Jones and Pacquiao), both were 3-division world champs, and longevity is pretty much impossible to split as well. Barrera began his career the year after Toney began his, and while James deserves massive credit for being a ranked heavyweight 15 years after winning the middleweight title, you can't ignore the fact that Barrera was still on the top 10 P4P lists more than a decade after Toney was forever dropped from them. I have them on the same level in terms of overall ability at their peak, as well. Toney has more losses to lesser fighters, but then he was never dominated by a sub-par opponent, particularly in the way Barrera was against Jones. Honestly, I don't think I could give either man a clear edge in any one category. I find it very difficult to split them, though right now I'm leaning towards MAB.
I thought Toney made it back after the Jirov/Holyfield wins, bit of a mockery of pound 4 pound, with all those extra pounds he was carrying Another point is, I don't think Toney would be dominated by Pacquaio level fighter, I think he'd do a JMM on Pac tbh
You're right, he did for that brief time. Lose? I think so too. He'd have almost certainly done better against a 168lbs version of that Pacquiao then MAB did though, but only if he came in top shape and well-prepared. If it's Tiberi-form he'd get slaughtered. Which brings up all of MAB's issues going into the Pacquiao fight. It's entirely possible all of the outside distractions (and a bit of overconfidence maybe), led to the nature of Barrera's thrashing at the hands of Pac.
Nah, be in 2 fights were 60% of fans thought he won Pac would almost certainly be a sucker for Toney's counter rights but yea he'd have to be in shape I don't think MAB can cope with long straight fast shots, it's a weakness in his style we saw against Junior Jones and Pacman, his outside game just isn't quite strong enough, he doesn't have a straight right or a good enough jab Skill set wise Toney is more complete than MAB
sure. I agree with most of this, though. Pacquiao, at least the 2003 version, would certainly struggle against Toney. I'd still probably favor Pac to set a pace too high for Toney and outwork him to a UD, but he'd take his lumps along the way. As for the weakness in MAB's outside game, you're probably right. He handled Morales' straight punches just fine, but he had to force his way inside to get the better of the action most of the time. Still, it's not like Toney was ever a great outside fighter, either. I do think MAB had the better and more often-used jab between these two, and while both were rather flat-footed, his feet were better, at least in regards to cutting off the ring. Probably a better combination puncher, too, I think. Again, they're evenly matched anyway you want to look at it, at least to me. Boxed Ears probably said it best about greatness being getting the best out of what you've got to offer. Barrera takes it for that reason alone.
Toney was clearly more gifted when in shape imo and not a million miles over where he should have been fighting. Overall career-wise it's just who you prefer really.There's probably a thousand little ways you could justify one over the other or pick at either one.
Toney is probably a better fighter if you look at his skills, but Barrera fought and competed with the best and kept himself always in top fighting shape. Hard to say. I picked Barrera, but it is close.
