It's almost as if they scrambled to find a last minute venue for the rematch because they knew the closed circuit money would be huge. It's almost as if the fight was so big that they were better off w a small venue rather than cancelling because there would be so much closed circuit money. Wow, if true. Fun fact: The Boston Garden has a capacity of 19.5k.
Yeah that's not what happened. At all. You literally just made it up. "The new date was set for May 25, 1965. But as it approached, Liston was involved in yet another arrest and there were fears that the promoters were tied to organized crime. Massachusetts officials, most notably Suffolk County District Attorney Garrett H Bryne, began to have second thoughts. Byrne sought an injunction blocking the fight in Boston because Inter-Continental Promotions was promoting the fight without a Massachusetts license. Inter-Continental said local veteran Sam Silverman was the promoter. On May 7, backers of the rematch ended the court battle by pulling the fight out of Boston. Lewiston, Maine The Androscoggin Bank Colisée, in Lewiston, Maine The promoters needed a new location quickly, whatever the size, to rescue their closed circuit television commitment around the country. Governor John H Reed of Maine stepped forward, and within a few hours, the promoters had a new site: Lewiston Maine a mill town with a population of about 41,000 located 140 miles (230 km) north of Boston. Inter-Continental obtained a permit and made an arrangement to work with local promoter Sam Michael. The venue selected was the Central Maine Youth Center a Junior Hockey rink. Lewiston was the smallest city to host a heavyweight title bout since Dempsey fought Tom Gibbons in Shelby Montana (population 3,000) in 1923. It remains the only heavyweight title fight held in the state of Maine." The fight wasn't held in The Boston Garden though was it?
They moved the fight late bc Boston Garden got blocked so they went with the little ass venue bc they didn’t want to miss the closed circuit money. Ali II was Liston’s biggest fight—for legacy or otherwise.
No, neither did Vitaly of the undisputed title. And unlike Vitaly, Liston actually beat an undisputed champion. Sanders was probably the top contender when Vitaly beat him, yes. Who else in the top 5 (not saying there weren't any, just don't know off the bat).
Liston beat a guy who was chinny and weighed less than 190. Not quite the same as needing to beat Byrd, Iggy, and Chagaev to established lineage. And he defended that 11 times. Vitali beat Sanders, Adamek, and Peter who were all top five. Several others were top ten.
Are you on Wlad now? Since Vitaly for sure didn't do any of that. Yes, Wlad ranks higher than Liston. Has never been questioned by me, so don't know what you're answering really. Not that very far from Liston, but Sonny demolishing a two time lineal champion twice separates them for me.
You started talking about Wlad. Not me. Vitali became The Ring champ by beating Sanders (in other words, he established lineage according to many) and then defended in double digits while taking Peter's WBC belt despite being sidelined for several years. Surely, that separates him from Liston. As for Patterson, he'd be a top light heavyweight/crusier today, but not a top heavyweight. He'd have evenish odds or worse against Sanders, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, and Adamek. And he'd still have it rough against Chisora. Donald, Hide and Briggs. His chance of beating that line up without losing is zero.
Ah, I see I wrote Vlad. Must have been subconciously influenced by that OP, where Vitaly was named Vlad. ("I’m talking about Vitali not Wladimir. Vlad not Wlad"). Anyhow, meant Vitaly and have edited. No, because he lost his Ring Championshio when he was away. He defended that once. This fantasy h2h thing means absolutely nothing to me. I look at what a fighter did in his own time, against those he actually faced.
Lineage doesn’t end when you sit out for a few years. As for the h2h part, you’re absolutely allowed to rank a win over a chinny 188 pounder as if it’s the same as taking out Tyson Fury in one round. Humans have been bending logic to justify things like human rights violations since the dawn of mankind. You’re allowed to be human.
I've been reading this forum for years, and I never try to say anything negative towards posters here, the majority of which are very knowledgeable & friendly. But you, without a doubt, are a troll.
Vitali’s resume is so damn bad….Wlads is def more comparable to Listons. Patterson was better by far then anyone either Klitchko beat. The best one either of them beat was Byrd and he beat Vitali. The former light heavy mind u. There is very little argument for Vitali imo over Liston. His brother Wlad has the better argument and even then I edge Liston…slightly. Honestly every fighter in the top fifteen (except Ali and Louis) has an argument to be put over one another. Just depends how one would prioritize certain things
The Ring took their championship away from him and gave it to Wlad 2009 after leaving it vacant for several years, so they disagree. "Allowed"? Yes, no one is going to ban you for doing it. For me it means nothing, though, since it's hypothetical and the sport in all probability has progressed. So I'm ranking on what a fighter did in his own time, not what I guess he would have in another. And by that Liston is ahead for me.
The Ring did, but if you recognize lineage that's separate and wouldn't have been gone until he beat Chisora. Vitali is why Wlad's lineage came so late. The thread asks for standing according to resume and h2h. Liston had two golden chances against Ali to prove that he belongs near the top of h2h. He blew those chances horribly and the rest of his resume consists of small guys or limited guys, if not both (plus Williams). I compared his resume earlier to Povetkin's resume. That checks out a lot better than either of the K bros.
My comparison was just resume, as always. Generally stay out of fantasy h2h and did this time as well.
