Greater fighter Vlad or Liston?

They moved the fight late bc Boston Garden got blocked so they went with the little ass venue bc they didn’t want to miss the closed circuit money.

Ali II was Liston’s biggest fight—for legacy or otherwise.

 

No, neither did Vitaly of the undisputed title. And unlike Vitaly, Liston actually beat an undisputed champion.

Sanders was probably the top contender when Vitaly beat him, yes. Who else in the top 5 (not saying there weren't any, just don't know off the bat).

 

Liston beat a guy who was chinny and weighed less than 190. Not quite the same as needing to beat Byrd, Iggy, and Chagaev to established lineage. And he defended that 11 times.

Vitali beat Sanders, Adamek, and Peter who were all top five. Several others were top ten.

 

Are you on Wlad now? Since Vitaly for sure didn't do any of that.

Yes, Wlad ranks higher than Liston. Has never been questioned by me, so don't know what you're answering really.

Not that very far from Liston, but Sonny demolishing a two time lineal champion twice separates them for me.

 

You started talking about Wlad. Not me.

Vitali became The Ring champ by beating Sanders (in other words, he established lineage according to many) and then defended in double digits while taking Peter's WBC belt despite being sidelined for several years. Surely, that separates him from Liston.

As for Patterson, he'd be a top light heavyweight/crusier today, but not a top heavyweight. He'd have evenish odds or worse against Sanders, Peter, Gomez, Arreola, and Adamek. And he'd still have it rough against Chisora. Donald, Hide and Briggs. His chance of beating that line up without losing is zero.

 

Ah, I see I wrote Vlad. Must have been subconciously influenced by that OP, where Vitaly was named Vlad. ("I’m talking about Vitali not Wladimir. Vlad not Wlad"). Anyhow, meant Vitaly and have edited.

No, because he lost his Ring Championshio when he was away. He defended that once.

This fantasy h2h thing means absolutely nothing to me. I look at what a fighter did in his own time, against those he actually faced.

 

Lineage doesn’t end when you sit out for a few years.

As for the h2h part, you’re absolutely allowed to rank a win over a chinny 188 pounder as if it’s the same as taking out Tyson Fury in one round. Humans have been bending logic to justify things like human rights violations since the dawn of mankind. You’re allowed to be human.

 

I've been reading this forum for years, and I never try to say anything negative towards posters here, the majority of which are very knowledgeable & friendly. But you, without a doubt, are a troll.

 

Vitali’s resume is so damn bad….Wlads is def more comparable to Listons. Patterson was better by far then anyone either Klitchko beat. The best one either of them beat was Byrd and he beat Vitali. The former light heavy mind u.
There is very little argument for Vitali imo over Liston. His brother Wlad has the better argument and even then I edge Liston…slightly. Honestly every fighter in the top fifteen (except Ali and Louis) has an argument to be put over one another. Just depends how one would prioritize certain things

 

The Ring took their championship away from him and gave it to Wlad 2009 after leaving it vacant for several years, so they disagree.

"Allowed"? Yes, no one is going to ban you for doing it. For me it means nothing, though, since it's hypothetical and the sport in all probability has progressed. So I'm ranking on what a fighter did in his own time, not what I guess he would have in another. And by that Liston is ahead for me.

 

The Ring did, but if you recognize lineage that's separate and wouldn't have been gone until he beat Chisora. Vitali is why Wlad's lineage came so late.

The thread asks for standing according to resume and h2h. Liston had two golden chances against Ali to prove that he belongs near the top of h2h. He blew those chances horribly and the rest of his resume consists of small guys or limited guys, if not both (plus Williams).

I compared his resume earlier to Povetkin's resume. That checks out a lot better than either of the K bros.

 

My comparison was just resume, as always. Generally stay out of fantasy h2h and did this time as well.

 

Guys he beat who made The Ring annual in the year before he beat them are as follows: Mike De John, Nino, Machen, Foley, and Patterson x2. I dont see Williams in there until later. Six guys.

Off the top of my head, the following guys were Ring rated when Vitali beat them:
Sanders, Peter, Johnson, Arreola, Solis, Gomez, Adamek. Not sure about Chisora, who had just been ripped off against Helenius. That's 7 or 8.

Povetkin has Perez, Chagaev, and Whyte. I think Chambers was in and Byrd was out.

 

Johnson and Solis were not in Ring's annual rankings the year before losing to Vitaly, as far as I can see. But as I said, demolishing a two time lineal champion twice is what sets them apart for me.

I'll leave it at that.

 

They were in after the annual came out. This has been covered here.

Vitali's title defenses and admirable effort against an ATG set him apart from Liston, who folded in his step(s) up. Beating Patterson at heavyweight is similar to beating Roy Jones at heavyweight, as far as I'm concerned. There's just no comparison between Patterson and the guys who sat on top of eras since.