Greatest Contenders - Heavyweights

I had a best contenders best five wins thread.
Was real fun to do and opened my eyes to people I would have never considered.

 

I don’t consider them real champs but I get you. Guys like Machen, Schaff, Jackson, Jeanette, tua

 

-Earnie Shavers
-Peter Jackson
-Sam Langford
-David Tua
-Billy Conn
-Archie Moore
-Oscar Bonavena
-Joe Jeanette
-Harry Wills
-Jerry Quarry
-Ron Lyle
-Jimmy Young
-Gerry Cooney
-Sam McVey
-Ike Ibeabuchi

 

Paul’s boxrec record is clearly incomplete. There was a famous article about Paul that stated his record was actually 117-2-1.

“From Paterson, N. ]., Paul Cavalier, called the cleverest heavyweight in the world by Gene Tunney, was active in the squared circle for 15 years as a lightheavy and heavyweight contender. Started his boxing career in 1920 and won 15 straight bouts before losing his first fight in Madison Square Garden.

In 1927 at Arcola Park in Paramus, Paul de’ cisioned Jimmy Braddock for the light heavyweight championship of New Jersey, after Jimmy had a winning streak of 21 consecutive knockouts. As a heavyweight Paul won over Humberto Arce, Pietro Corri, Jack Roper, Phil Mercurio and defeated Tony Galento for the state heavyweight championship, after the famed Tony had scored 13 straight knockouts. Paul boxed over 100 rounds with Joe Louis while touring the New England states and Canada with the champion.

Feared and respected for his boxing talents by champions and top contenders, to remain active, Cavalier helped train seven former world champions, Gene Tunney, Jack Sharkey, Max Baer, Jack De’ laney, Mickey Walker, Primo Camera and Joe Louis.

Engaged in 115 bouts, won 111, lost three and boxed one draw. Knocked down only twice during his entire career, Paul arose and won both fights. Gene Tunney was certainly right.

Married in 1930 to the former Florence Lota, an active bowler and golfer, the Cavaliere’s reside in Wayne, N.]. They have a son, Paul Jr., a practicing lawyer in Paterson, N. ]. and four grandchildren.

Today Paul is a top boxing referee in New Jersey, and has worked the last four championship bouts held in our state. Also, he is Chief of the Attendance Dept., Board of Education, Paterson School System.”

According to the article Paul, who boxed as Paul cavalier for 18 years, was 6'2'' 210lb and beat Tony galento, Jim Braddock, al gainer, lee ramos,les kenney and larry johnson but never got a shot at the title because he was (like a lot of fighters at the time)"too good" for his own good. retiring in 1938 he had been a sparing partner for Joe Louis who never decked him in 3 years.

I have checked out what boxrec have on him and they have him listed as 47-5-3 with all his losses coming on points. Even so, looking at the boxrec list, If you trace the men listed as beating Cavalier on these newspaper results at least one of them had previously went down as a draw and 4 others previously listed as outright losing to Paul by official decision in other fights. He was perhaps not decisively beaten ever. Certainly not by stoppage.

Paul still won fights at the garden but could not have been asked back. retiring on a 5 year winning streak in local clubs.

Just think about that for a moment. Retiring on a five year win streak?

 

Cavalier was ranked by the NBA in their quarterly rankings in September 1933. He was rated at #7. He was gone by the December 1933 NBA rankings. I have no idea if he was ranked again. He may have been.

 

Cavalier 200lbs LOST to 176lbs Gainer.
Cavalier also lost to Larry Johnson in1931 ,he beat him in1935 when Johnson 34-33-1was in the middle of a 9 bout losing streak.Johnson was never more than a journeyman.
Les Kennedy 51-21-3 was also a journeyman who had lost his last 2 fights /
Cavalier never fought anyone called Lee Ramos. Galento was on a 14 bout winning streak but NOT a13 bout ko streak , 3 fights previously he had won a dec from Paul Thurman177lbs to his 225lbs Thurman was 4-1-0.
Cavalier did not retire on a 5 years winning streak he won just 1 of his last 3 fights.
Neither did he retire in1938, he called it quits in1936!
The only record of Louis sparring with Cavalier is Nov 21st 1935 just 1 round,and Aug 14th 1936 when he did 6 ,1 minute rds.
Since Louis did not turn pro until 4th July1934 and Cavalier retired in 36 that information is wrong too!
Just think about that for a moment!
Mercurio was a light heavweight journeyman who also beat Cavalier.
In summary you've read a local fan piece and swallowed it whole.
Cavalier was a journeyman who never beat a ranked contender, and never was one himself.

 

Cavalier was ranked in 1933 but, though he kept winning, he dropped out the ranks when he couldn’t secure big fights. He was probably never decisively beaten and remained a very respected sparring partner to Joe Louis for years. Tunney called paul the cleverest fighter in boxing. He beat Galento and Braddock. Two different articles state he had over 100 wins.

 

Galento was 21 years old, Braddock was 20 and 162lbs The article you posted has more factual holes in it than a sieve.
In1933 Cavalier beat two journeymen Corri 16-64-6 and 16 -66-6 and Kennedy 51-21-3. Cavalier was never ranked by the Ring.
Braddock,far from being on a 21 fight ko winning streak had drawn his last fight and had 7decisions,1 draw,and a no contest in his previous 21 fights. Give up fella, the dirt is up to your neck now!

 

Cavalier was a comparable age to both Galento and Braddock. He beat them easily for state titles, yet despite both losing to Paul, Braddock and Galento hooked up with people who could get them bigger fights.

These are the facts.
1.Cavalier was rated in 1933..
2. he had a good record
3. In boxing circles, endorsed by Tunney as a future champion and respected by Joe Louis
4. He beat Braddock and Galento.
5. Boxrec is incomplete.
6. He was never knocked out.

The new “losses” might have been previously listed NDs. There are no knockout defeats. No mention of scorecards. at least one of them previously went down as a draw. Others could likely have been previously listed officially no decision bouts that were never recorded as losses until unofficial newspaper decisions could be found. Three of the “new” points losses are against men cavalier also beat. It is probable all of these “losses” reversed? Just as It is quite probable these were all indecisive distance fights against the same guys over and over and Absolute Stinkers.

At worst, he is a good, mysterious contender forced to languish in small clubs.

 

No mention of Cavalier in Louis' autobiography
Cavalier was never ranked by The Ring.
Braddock weighed 162lbs for that fight and was 20 years old,Cavalier23 years old and 176lbs so Braddock was a middle weight and Cavalier over the lightheavy limit.How do you make a LHVY state title out of that?There is no mention of Cavalier and Braddock fighting for any state title in the Braddock bio .Cinderella Man.
Galento was 21 years old Cavalier 26!
All the gumpf you posted from that source is just bogus innaccuracies and that is FACT!
ps The dirt is now over your head ,stop digging!

 

Good lists in this thread. Ill add some i havent seen mentioned yet, Andrew Golota as he probably should of won a title at some point (especially after the Byrd or Ruiz fights). Though he was generally his own worst enemy.

Zed Mavrovic? Took Lewis the distance, has some ok wins, but never really fought the other elites at heavyweight (if im remembering this right he got sick after the Lewis fight)

It seems starting in the 80s if you were decent you had a pretty good chance to win a title somewhere along the way.