Greatest Contenders - Lightweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by scartissue, Jan 22, 2021.


  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    @BitPlayerVesti , I just don't know how many different ways I can say the same thing. Britt did not win the official lightweight championship, therefore, he was never the lightweight champ. You're going by what some writer - who was likely unclear on the status of a DQ - wrote some 117 years ago. And it was his opinion that he was writing about. In his opinion Gans was through and would never again make the weight. Yet, Gans did make the weight many times and went on to defend his title at that weight for another 6 title defenses, one of them in a rematch with Britt, whom he outclassed, and another of them over 42 rounds with Battling Nelson. Now what does that do to that man's opinion? Really makes him look like an idiot, doesn't it? Wasn't the first time a writer was harkening a fighter was done and certainly wouldn't be the last. I've done that myself only to end up with egg on my face. Gans clearly just had a bad night and if Britt could've kept the head, he would have been champ.
     
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  2. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ron, Davey Day is an outstanding pick. Consider him on the list.
     
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  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    What official title? Official according to who? Boxrec?

    Other places including Cyberboxingzone include Britt in the lineage.

    There is no official title, it's a complete fiction. All there is is what was recognised at the time, and opinion was very devided.

    Gans himself said he was too weak at that weight to fight properly, and wanted a rematch with Britt but not under those conditions.

    Many, including George Siler, considered those to be the proper conditions for a Lightweight contest (though Siler himself still considered Gans champion). Those were not isolated reports. There were tons recognising Britt as the champion, and reporting on his fights as for the Lightweight championship of the world.

    I'll never understand how people will call 4 people champions in one division now, based on nothing but politics and arbitrary decisions by sanctioning bodies, but can't consider that a couple people could have defensible claims to the championship of one division in the past.
     
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  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Further, if you think the writers of those were unclear on the status of the dq, you clearly haven't bothered to read them, since they clearly discuss the topic.
     
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh, I'm quite versed on their feelings of a DQ. It's the legal lines - as they were - that gets blurred back in those days. When Ketchel lost his life and the middleweight title, quite a number of his contemporaries came out of the woodwork claiming the title. When Jeffries retired, Bob Fitzsimmons actually said the title reverted to him. A stand has to be taken. But the best evidence I found on the claims for the lightweight title was from a quote from Battling Nelson after his 1905 KO of Britt.

    "I was the champion! For winning this great battle, as well as the White lightweight championship of the world, I received the tidy sum of $18,841."

    That says it all and boxrec was absolutely correct in their research. That was the only claim he had to a championship of any kind.
     
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  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    There's been tons of claiments, but does not make all time claims equal. That's an absurd idea.

    One quote (and not even a sourced quote) certainly does not say it all. Especially when you can find quotes of Nelson calling himself the world champion at the time, and especially as that's again after the fact, and would only say one fighters opinion of Britt's claim.
     
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Is there no possibility of an agree to disagree here? This isn't what the threads about.
     
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  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Fair enough. There was a thread made for this topic, so I won't post any more about it in this thread.
     
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fair enough. Bit, thanks for your input on the subject.
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, I took the liberty of adding in a few more, but I had to stop as I felt I would just keep going. This division was just so damn deep. Anyways, here we are, the greatest lightweight contenders who never won the title, as deemed by the Classic Boxing Forum (always open for additions).

    -Young Griffo
    -George 'Elbows' McFadden
    -Jimmy Britt
    -Jack Blackburn
    -Packey McFarland
    -Dave Holly
    -Harlem Tommy Murphy
    -Mexican Joe Rivers
    -Lockport Jimmy Duffy
    -Leach Cross
    -Ever Hammer
    -Lew Tendler
    -Charley White
    -Sid Terris
    -Joe Mandot
    -Benny Valger
    -Joe Shugrue
    -Richie Mitchell
    -Billy Petrolle
    -Jack (Kid) Berg
    -Kid Chocolate
    -Wes Ramey
    -Pedro Montanez
    -Davey Day
    -Willie Joyce
    -Freddie Dawson
    -Art Aragon
    -Enrique Bolanos
    -Georgie Araujo
    -Orlando Zulueta
    -Kenny Lane
    -Duilio Loi
    -Paolo Rosi
    -Len Matthews
    -Carlos 'Morocho' Hernandez
    -Dave Charnley
    -Doug Vaillant
    -Flash Elorde
    -Sugar Ramos
    -Nicolino Loche
    -Ruben Navarro
    -Ray Lampkin
    -Cornelius Boza Edwards
    -Aaron Pryor
    -Carlos 'Famoso' Hernandez
    -Angel Manfredy
    -Yuri Gamboa
    -Joan Guzman
    -Sharmba Mitchell
    -Zahir Raheem

    Next up: junior welterweights
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Given some of the guys who have gotten in, I'd say Sugar Ramos deserves to be on there as well. Good wins over Rojas, Carmina, Herrera and Soriano twice, as well as giving Mando Ramos one of the greatest fights of all time.
     
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  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just added. Great pick, George. Ramos was bursting at the seams as a featherweight. The Moore fight may have been one of his last great performances at 126. 135 seemed to be where he was headed for awhile. Regarding his great fights at 135, let's not forget he had Carlos Ortiz down in their first fight as well. Again, excellent choice.
     
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  13. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You keep hitting home runs, Sir. Great job
     
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Azumah Nelson
    Gervonta Davis
    Pryor
    Gamboa
    Guzman
    Sharmba Mitchell
    Zahir Raheem
    Erik Morales
     
  15. ron davis

    ron davis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Davey Moore Featherweight passed 1963 fight with Sugar Ramos. A dear friend of Davey Day and his manager Willie Ketchum, (?). Nobody knows for sure, if Davey Moore was injured (head) prior to his fight with his wife? Sugar Ramos was outstanding in the fight, an unfortunate part of boxing that night, very sad. I have pictures taken with him in LA 1962.