Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Apr 13, 2019.
Vitali has the best HW jab ever tied with Ali.
I would pick a prime Ali for sure and he'd lose to Lewis and then Frazier
No he definitely doesn't, and neither does Ali, Liston Holmes and Lewis all have better Jabs than both
I'm confused, how does Lewis not lose to Ali, and Ali doesn't lose to lewis, is that an undecided pick, or just an oversight?
Ali and Vitali have more versatile jabs
Nobody is a favorite against prime Ali so would rate him nr1 and Foreman with his confidence intact would batter any hw except for Ali.
And the answer is dempsey.....next louis and johnson....
I wouldn't favor Dempsey over prime Povetkin.
I never got how the Liston fans say he had a better jab than Clay - Ali. Sonny had to be set to punch, he couldnt throw a jab while moving side to side or backwards. He was similar to George Foreman in that regard. He had a great jab against certain types of fighters. Ali jabbed him to ribbons in their first fight.
Lennox had a good, not great jab. He never had the snap and speed of guys like Holmes or Ali. Ray Mercer out jabbed him as did Frank Bruno.
I reckon Vitali K had the best jab out of Lennox, himself and Wladimir as he could throw it moving in any direction and use it as either a points scoring type jab to set up other punches or as a thudding power jab.
As far as the topic goes I reckon Ali, Lennox and Wlad ( in any order ) would get the most wins if there was an imaginary tournament where the prime version of each champion would be able to fight each other. Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Vitali Klitschko would also be very difficult opponents as would Foreman.
As much as I admire certain older champions like Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Jack Johnson I reckon they were a bit small have as much success as the fighters I named earlier.
Frazier would be a deadly opponent for guys like Ali, Holmes and Holyfield but he would struggle against the plus 220 pound bangers.
The actual rules and equipment would also make a big difference. The modern 10 and 12 oz gloves are like pillows compared to the 6 oz horsehair type gloves that Louis used let alone the gloves that Johnson and Dempsey used and are a lot easier to use as " blocking mitts " than the smaller old school gloves. I dunno how effective peek a boo style guard like Tyson and Patterson used would be with small 5 or 6 oz gloves like Dempsey and Louis used.
From memory I think they started using 10 oz gloves in all heavyweight fights in the mid eighties. You can also swing a lot harder with modern " pillow " type gloves and modern hand wraps than you could with the old gloves. Correct punching technique is more important with the smaller gloves due to how much easier is would have been to suffer hand injuries.
Ring size, the distance of the fight and whether the fighter is allowed to stand over a fallen opponent like Jack Johnson and Dempsey were so good at would also have to be sorted as it makes a massive difference.
Ali is my pick. Theirs not one single heavyweight in history I would pick against him prime vs prime. What Ali did great in his prime is a weakness to most heavyweights in history. Hand and Foot speed, angles and psychological warfare. Ali's gifts were totally unique for the heavy's and he proved he could sustain the speed and constant movement for 15rds. He also punched a lot harder then given credit for. He defeated the most talented and diverse group of heavyweights in history, some he defeated past his prime. Of course their are Heavyweights that would've given him hell, and he probably wins by majority or split decision, (And his personality advantages would more than likely have the judges lean his way which happened a few times) but the key word is he wins... He was the most athletically gifted heavyweight in history.
If I had to pick a heavyweight to fight for my life, I would choose Muhammad Ali from the years 1965-67 followed closely by the 1986-88 version of Mike Tyson.
TOP 3 HEAD TO HEAD HEAVYWEIGHTS
1) Muhammad Ali
2) Mike Tyson
3) Joe Louis
Lewis beats all 3 imo
I would favour him over Louis but not Ali or Tyson.
It's certainly your opinion. But Lewis has chin liability that puts him outside of my Top 3 despite his obvious talent.
Of the three I think his best chance would be against Ali. I personally give Ali the edge over Lewis but I think he wins a close decision. Tyson scores a mid rounds stoppage in a competitive fight and Louis breaks him down and stops him late.
Other fighters outside of my Top 3 H2H that I would favor over Lewis would be Larry Holmes and Evander Holyfield.
I would give Riddick Bowe and George Foreman 50/50 chance.
I reckon Lewis would beat just about everyone else.
But at the end of the day it's heavyweight boxing so in effect anything can happen. Larry Merchant once said that "Lewis may have a lot of chnks in his armor, but look at all that armor."