Greatest H2H Middleweight of all time (Poll)

Charles “Sonny” Liston is the best Middleweight to ever live, not really a discussion imo.

 

Detestable human being, but I would choose Monzon against any MW in history

 

arguably SRR, but NUNN of them listed that's for sure.

the only 2 that would have actually been TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT's during Robinson's time, or more accurately 'before' their 'own' times, are Hagler & Alverez...

Monzon, will always be thought among them, but even Carlos, going back in time would have been fitting at L-HW finishing out as a HW.

I'm sick of lists, they really don't add up, they are impossible to be correct or accurate, they exclude dozens & hundreds of greats and they are in fact an insult to Great Fighters and Boxing History!

 

I voted my man GGG but really you can make an argument for a bunch of guys like Monzon, Hagler, RJJ, SRR etc etc. The greatest MW isnt even on this list:

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So people think Greb is the P4P GOAT but aren't putting him in a H2H MW poll?

Its Hopkins, Greb or Toney for me.

Canelo and by extension GGG shouldn't be in this discussion cause Canelos losses at 154 and 175. Its a MW poll but inabilty to beat the greats above and below stands out.

 

How can you judge a man's H2H ability when you've never seen him fight? And why disqualify Canelo and GGG for losses but not disqualify Hopkins for losing to Roy, or Greb for losing to Bartfield or Gibbons, or Toney for what many consider gifts over Thadzi, Williams, or McCallum?

 

Toney is certainly not a H2H GOAT at Middleweight.

He was dropped heavily against Reggie Johnson and barely escaped with a decision.

Two razor thin close decisions against a slightly past it Mike McCallum.

And a total gift vs Dave Tiberi.

Don't get me wrong Toney was still good at Middleweight but theres others I would put above him Monzon, RJJ, Robinson, Hagler, etc.

As for the thread for me its Hagler, RJJ, Monzon. RJJ didn't have alot of notable fights at Middleweight but he did look scary at the weight.

KO'ed Thomas Tate in just 2 rounds who not long before went 12 rounds with Julian Jackson.

Clear win over a future ATG Middleweight Bernard Hopkins.

Another clear win over Jorge Castro who would go on to become Middleweight champion.

 

I like Hagler but I wouldn’t argue with anyone who picked one of the other possibilities.

 

I pick Monzon from what is available.


Greb?

 

The unfilmed wonder, Greb, based on results

 

RJJ over Toney is fair. Omitted RJJ more because I don't associate him with 160 or 168 opposed to Toney being better. RJJ beat Hopkins and you can make an argument just on that fact alone but I see RJJ as a LHW. Put Toney in because like RJJ he won stuff at HW and our other options did not.

 

The answer is Gennadiy Gennadyevich Golovkin, King of 160 and Destroyer of All Men.

 

Because RJJ would be my answer to this question if I considered him a MW. Thats why. Floyd Mayweather is a WW albeit one of the best ones ever and Bivol is a very good but not ATG LHW. When other options have ran gauntlets at LHW and have HW belts failing to beat the WW king and Bivol is kind of a problem. Bivol and Kovalev are the only big time LHW+ fighters Canelo fought. He lost to 1 and the other gave him a tough time.

Harry Greb was relative to Gene Tunney and beat Mickey Walker one of the only true WWs to contend at HW and who should probably be here too. I will loudly pound on the table that Greb isn't the P4P GOAT but the idea hes not a top 10 MW H2H because no one saw him fight is kinda disrespectful. The same reason I don't give Greb as much credit for his wins is why he can't be blamed too much for his losses. He was a point fighter in the Newspaper decision era and most of his fights were 10 rounds and he was fighting some of the best LHWs. Shorter distances mean an upset is more likely thats why title fights are longer. Hence why Bartfield drew Greb over 6 rounds and he lost to Hooks Evans, Fay Keiser over the same distance. Going undefeated as a point fighter facing his SOS fighting short distances isn't realistic. Give your favorite legends a bunch of 6-10 round fights against decent competition and you'd see the losses slip through the cracks.


Gibbons was freaking great what about losing to Gibbons? Same with Tunney, Miske and Loughran. Freaking amazing fighters all 4 of whom fought for the HW title. Hes got wins over all them. Hence why he might be the best MW H2H all time. It is absolutley not the same as a champion taking a close decision loss in a title fight in one of the few big matches one fights in their 21st career.

 

Canelo was 23 against Mayweather and hadn't been tested much yet, nor had he grown into the fighter he would later become. Canelo was facing an ATG while still pre-prime and didn't do too bad for where he was at in his career. We're talking about Canelo's level of skill and ability at MW. So we're only thinking about his fights against Angulo, Lara, Cotto, Khan, GGG 1 and 2, Jacobs, and Chavez Jr. though that could be lumped into his SMW run technically. H2H, at least as I think of it, is a comparison of skill for skill, and we don't have any evidence at all of what skills Greb did or did not employ in the ring. He might look archaic and clumsy like Ketchel or he might look decent like MacFarland. We don't know and probably never will. That's no slight on Greb, but, for me, it seems a fool's errand to attempt to prove how skilful a fighter is from news clippings.