Greatest H2H Middleweight of all time (Poll)

I’ve already told you before that I’m a fan.

I’ve also told you that I’ve spent hours on here defending him.

I like him a lot.

I appreciate his skills.

I like his character.

He’s one of my favourite fighters.

However, labelling him as being the H2H GOAT is a huge statement.

Because despite how great he was, most of the guys you listed were B-C level guys, and he struggled against Derev and Jacobs who were his best opponents along with Canelo.

As we all know, the draw against Canelo was a joke. It should have been a win.

However, after watching all of those fights and his career in its entirety, it doesn’t tell me that he should have been favoured over all the greats of the past.

There simply isn’t enough evidence to support such an opinion.

But to be fair to him, I don’t think there is a MW, who could have beaten every other MW in history, without coming unstuck. Because there’s just too many great fighters, with too many styles to overcome.

So I think all of the greats could all have beaten each other, on any given night.

 

H2H is based on ability, and not achievements at the weight.

So in this specific thread, it would make much more sense to rate Roy higher than GGG.


What I’ve found from debating you, is that the official accolades and the statistics really mean a lot to you.

To me, they’re never the most important thing. Because to me, context always has to applied.


GGG was great. 100%. But he wasn’t greater than the best versions of Toney and McCallum etc, just because he has more title defences etc.

No.


Now let’s talk about that so called green Roy at MW:

Roy easily beat Castro. And if you are knowledgeable of Castro, then you know how tough he was, and some of the great fights what he had.

He also beat Hopkins. Now at the time, Hopkins didn’t have a high ranking off of everyone. However, if you just watch the fight, you can see that he was a world level operator back then. This is the thing with rankings. It’s just circumstances. If a fighter is unknown at the time, he’s not highly ranked. But he could be much better than a guy who is highly ranked. A ranking alone doesn’t give you a fighter’s true worth. Because it depends on many things, like the depth of the division etc. The point is, Hopkins was a great fighter even in 1993. And certainly better than anybody who GGG fought, bar Canelo. And even then, you could make an argument that in terms of ability, that Hopkins was on his level. Now Roy beat Hopkins quite comfortably, with an injured hand. And Roy wouldn’t pull out of the fight, as it was his first big opportunity after 4 years as a pro. So: Roy beat a very good Hopkins, with one hand, who didn’t lose another fight for 12 years.

Roy then fought Malinga, just over the weight limit. And Roy beat him with ease. He knocked him out. And Malinga was tough. He’d caused Eubank and Benn huge issues, before then going on to beat Benn and Robin Reid.

Roy also crushed Thomas Tate, when he was fully matured at 25, just prior to fighting James Toney at SMW.

So: Although Roy didn’t have a lot, those were 4 very impressive wins at the weight, before he then moved up to SMW and LHW, where he emphatically beat guys like: Toney, Hill, Griffin and Johnson etc, where he showcased the exact same skills and style.


So what does that tell us?

It tells us that he’d have cruised through GGG’s timeline/resume, and that he’s much more of a H2H GOAT at MW than what GGG would have been.

 

I've been saying this whole thread that H2H is based on ability and not resume and accomplishments actually, glad we agree. I was just trying to make a point with what the poster I replied to was saying about dominant wins over top level opponents as a metric. In terms of attributes though, I think Golovkin was more technically sound and had a better chin, on top of being more multi-dimensional (Jones could oftentimes be repetitive which is why a number of his fights are quite boring). I'm a Roy hater but for my money his resume isn't all too flashy and I think many are too flattered by his speed and power to notice how poor his fundamentals were or how much he relied on leaping left hooks.

 

I can tell you don't have much love for Gennadiy. "Carefully picked opponents" lol. This is just kinda hating ngl.

 

6th
https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Middleweight--1990s

 

He took a 154 pounder of of a 2 year retirement for a title defence.
He chose his opposition carefully no doubt about that

 

Jones followed by Hagler. Also think Nunn h2h as a middleweight was underrated an would beat quite a few on that list

 

When he was pushing 40, yeah, sometimes, but for the bulk of his career he couldn't face the top talent because they didn't want to face him. Sturm, Martinez, Cotto, Barker, Chavez Jr., Quillin, Geale, Canelo, none of them guys were all too keen on fighting him at his best.

 

Not 40. Mid thirty when he dragged Vanes M out of a 2 year retirement. No excuse for that because Andrande offered to step in.

He asked the IBF to fast track Kamil S as mandatory so he would have to fight somebody better.

He spent his twilight years waiting on Ryota Murata so he wouldn't have to fight somebody better.

Some of those names you mention weren't even middleweight or natural 154 pounders like Cotto . But it highlights the hypocrisy and fanboyism of the Golovkin fan because they wanted all these guys to move up then made every excuse under the sun why GG shouldn't have to move up and fight Ward.

 

“I’m a Roy hater”

Ha!

That made me laugh.


It doesn’t matter that he had an unorthodox style.


The point is:

He beat better fighters than Golovkin did, and with absolute ease.

 

If Jones was called champ, which at this point we certainly know he was, Tate was top 5. Semantics or not he completely decimated Tate in a disgustingly dominant eye test. He showed no signs of weight drainage and in his very next bout basically shut out James Toney who was top #2 P4P. He certainly didn't acquire any amazing skills between Tate and Toney.

Jones was the real deal at middleweight. He was 25 fights deep and even at that point pretty much the full package.

 

GGG could’ve beaten all of those guys twice he still wouldn’t be as good as Toney, Hopkins or Jones H2H all those guys beat him up, he has a better shot with the real 160lbers because he’s 10-15lbs heavier lol.