Greatest HW accomplishment in history

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Dec 7, 2015.


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  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    In my opinion, the era is bad. I agree with him.

    The top ten today is weak in comparison to other eras.

    Fury and Wilder now hold all the belts.

    Would Wlad have had 11 years of dominance in other eras? Not in my opinion.

    Why would contenders today tear through contenders of the past? That's a generalisation that's based on nothing.
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #46
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    :lol:

    :good
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #47
  3. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    You're being blinded by statistics.
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #48
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Again, would Wlad have been the best HW in the world and undefeated for 11 years, in any other eras?

    Let's just look from the 60's-2015:

    I can't see where it could have happened.

    In a stronger era, you wouldn't have a dominant champ for 11 years, and not one who lost to the guys who Wlad lost to.

    Also, in my opinion, Vitali's two retirements enhanced Wlad's resume.

    Again, I don't know what makes you so confident that today's guys would beat the guys of yesteryear.

    What difference does it make if Wlad was the best of his era, and Frazier was the 3rd best in his era? It doesn't mean anything if Frazier's era was stronger.
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #49
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    :good
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #50
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wlad's losses are hardly a credit to him, but I get your point.

    The only thing is, because of the losses, Manny had to tighten up his defence, which has made him into an ultra cautious fighter. And in my opinion, that played a huge part in his loss to Fury.

    I believe that the younger, more aggressive Wlad who threw more shots and was knocked out by Sanders and Brewster, would have had a much better shot at beating Fury.

    It's going to be very interesting to see how he comes back in the rematch, both mentally and physically.
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #51
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don't see how he relied on his size more than Wlad did. Wlad has leant and grappled for years.
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #52
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    :good
     
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    Loudon, Dec 7, 2015
    #53
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    When did you start watching boxing?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 7, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 7, 2015
    #54
  10. Threetime no1

    Threetime no1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It transcended the sport as did Ali.
     
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    #55
  11. Threetime no1

    Threetime no1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greatest upset in history bar none. I guess you weren't around then eh?
     
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    #56
  12. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    The greatest accomplishment in heavyweight history is either Joe Louis ridiculously long reign, or Ali capturing the title four times.
     
    OvidsExile, Dec 7, 2015
    OvidsExile, Dec 7, 2015
    #57
  13. Threetime no1

    Threetime no1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    3 times.
     
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    Threetime no1, Dec 7, 2015
    #58
  14. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali KO8 Foreman
     
    theanatolian, Dec 7, 2015
    theanatolian, Dec 7, 2015
    #59
  15. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Loudon, I read some of your posts on the million threads that popped up after Wlad lost, was surprised at their reasonableness. Similarly, most of what you say above I can at least partially agree on (the exception I'll get to in a minute).

    There are different kinds of accomplishments in boxing. One thing I'll agree on is Ali's win over Foreman will likely remain the all time greatest accomplishment when it comes to underdog, ATG v ATG victories using ring intelligence. I go back and forth as to whether Louis or Ali is GOAT. Obviously not for H2H reasons, but because Louis's records and historic impact, and Ali's diverse career, showing both dominance, natural progression, changing styles and a ring intelligence that will probably never be duplicated. My main point in this thread is that, under either scenario, Fury or Vitali would achieve something that has never been achieved before in HW boxing, and have their own new claim to "greatest achievement". Louis's defense streak, Ali's comebacking ring intelligence, all have their own claim in their own way.

    Personally, I would love to see Fury vs Vitali because, while I doubt it would break ground on ring intelligence, I think it would be the exact opposite of Fury Wlad. Vitali's style leaves him a bit open to unusually large hw's. Add his age, and Fury's ability to throw a lot when it suits him, and I think Fury outlands him a lot. But, even now, Vitali probably has a considerable edge in power and especially chin. And he would keep coming forward and doing whatever it takes to win. I think it would be a brutal, highly entertaining fight for the ages. I think Fury would build up a good points lead, but eventually taste the canvass and Vitali would stop him very late, maybe in 12th right as he's looking at a points loss.

    One thing you're totally wrong on is that it would make the division and Wlad look bad if VK beat Fury. Certainly, it would put away any doubt about who the better brother was, and thus lower Wlad's ranking by Vitali leaping above him. And the normal crew who hates the K's and modern fighters in general would use it that way. Less biased people would rightly consider it an unparalleled accomplishment, though.

    That said, good post, overall. You have a lot more time to post than I do, so I'm not going to comment on the other posts you've made, but they look like fairly decent posts for the most part. Now, if only I could get you to recognize the importance of size in combat sports and the natural progression of all athletic endeavors in human history! :good
     
    andrewa1, Dec 8, 2015
    andrewa1, Dec 8, 2015
    #60
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