Greatest Light Heavyweight (175lbs) of all time (based on achievements NOT H2H)

None of the above listed. It's Ezzard Charles. His 3 wins over Moore, the other GOAT candidate of his division (aside from maybe Greb) cements his status. He also has other great wins over Bivins, Marshall and Maxim, the former 2 being roughly top 15 in an ATG list, and Maxim being a top 30 type of guy.

He was also a miscalled KD away from beating a prime Harold Johnson while past his prime. Absolute monster.

 

The answer is Charles.

Bro beat Moore 3x, Bivins and Maxim like 5x each, and Marshall twice.

He's the number #1 LHW, and you don't even have the #2 on there. Not to mention, Tunney didn't win the light heavyweight title either.

 

Hi Buddy.
Where I think the slight confusion lies is fighters that had great legacies at 175 are not always fighters that have won the title at 175, maybe if you had put " champions " at the weight, it would have curtailed the " Charles " conundrum, for what it's worth, you make a sensible and valid point, in which I am in agreement.
stay safe Devon, chat soon buddy.

 

foster.

charles wasn't given his chance.

 

If Tunney gets a pass for Carpentier ducking him, why doesn't Charles? The same thing happened with him and Lesnevich. Also, the WBA regular title was a world title, the American title wasn't. It's literally that simple. Not to mention, Carpentier lost to Siki, and it was Tunney who refused to fight black fighters.

Did Tunney not also go the heavyweight route?

 

He could've won the title from Siki, and either he or his management chose not to fight black fighters. He also could've fought McTigue or Berlenbach, both of whom never ducked anyone.

Also, Charles did the exact same thing you're trying to say Tunney did. When it became clear he wasn't going to get a title shot of Lesnevich, he moved up to heavyweight. And not only that, he then give Lesnevich a title shot himself.

There's no justification for having Tunney as an option and not Charles or Greb imo.

 

You're not understanding me, mate. My point isn't that Tunney shouldn't be ranked. My point is that Charles should be, as well.

Tunney during his time at the top of LHW division - which is only really a year longer than Charles' - was roughly between 1920 and 1924. In that time, he could've fought Carpentier, Siki and McTigue. Carpentier held the title hostage - like Lesnevich did - and refused to fight anyone with a pulse. He lost it to Siki, a black fighter, of which Tunney famously never fought. Whether it was his decision (which it probably was) or his managements is unknown, but it is known that Tunney was probably an elitist. Then Siki lost it to McTigue, who Tunney definitely could've fought. There's no reason for that fight not happening. McTigue wasn't freezing anyone out, and Tunney wasn't ducking him. The reason the American title doesn't count is because it's not a world title, and it's not the lineal title. Michael Spinks was known as the first LHW champion to win the heavyweight title precisely because Tunney didn't win it.

Their situation is remarkably similar, in that they were both unlucky to be in an era where they got frozen out by a champ who wouldn't fight anyone. Charles, however, fought in the 40s where the title was frozen for like 5 years, and as soon as it wasn't, Lesnevich held it hostage for another 2 years. As soon as he lost it, everyone got a title shot except Charles, who after spending just as long as Tunney hoping for a shot moved up - while the champion was actively ducking his #1 contender. The Becker brothers offered Lesnevich a $50,000 guarantee to fight Charles for the title, which he refused because he said the title was worth more and he knew he'd lose. If that's not a straight duck, I don't know what is. Lesnevich then fought Maxim instead in an event that was a huge loss. Charles' managers, not Charles, refused to chase the title any further after Mills won it. Charles didn't like fighting at heavyweight as he believed it gave him health problems, and he didn't care about the title (prior to fighting Louis). He cared about the extra money that come with it. Tunney literally did the same thing when he moved up for fight Dempsey.

There is zero justification for having Tunney as a contender but not Charles. There just isn't. Both were at their best at 175, both beat ridiculously good names there, both were at top level there for about the same amount of time (although Charles' was interrupted by the war) and both went to heavyweight after they failed to get a title shot.

 

Charles is the obvious but I want to throw a little love Spinks way...

Spinks was the first. The first light heavyweight to beat the heavyweight champ. Holmes no less.

History should show that Spinks was never off his feet prior to his last fight against Tyson and it took one of boxing’s hardest, fastest hitters
to accomplish that knockdown and stoppage.

In the last 16 fights of his career were all title fights in which he went 15-1, 11-0 at light heavyweight and 4-1 at heavyweight.

 

Several guys have excellent resumes at or around the weight.
Marshall,Bivins,but on balance its Charles.
It would be enlightening to know what Langford weighed for the fights in which there are no stats.