I agree with you Russell, he's one of the elite, the very best, but imo would always be just below the usuals- Hagler, Greb, Monzon and Robinson (i think Robinson is with them at 160), i now have Hopkins above Ketchel also, but Ketchel is above every1 else in my list
BIG DEE HERE= HARRY GREB without question as he defeated more Hall of Famers and near HOFs than any fighter in history. along with the fact I also have Greb in the top ten as a Lt. Heavyweight as he beat virtually every man who held the Lt. Heavyweight title from the teens to the 30s MAXIE ROOSENBLOOM. Guys his record is just to overwhelming to to ignore as I came to a realization about in 1968 when I was an 8th grader in Jr High school which they don`t even have anymore. Now it Middle school but then 9th gread was the top dog in school which I think it should stiil be as a 9th grader going to High School then we would have gotten killed by the 10th, 11th and 12th graders. It was bad enough when we were 10th graders having to fight the big *******s off. It wasn`t like now where if you hit somebody they call the cops and your arrested for fighting. They let you fight it out and cops were never, ever called. I was investigating everything in boxing history I could get my hands on and came to the conclustion that HARRY GREB was the greatest middleweight who ever lived and that hasn`t changed as no Middleweight has come close to him. Hagler great, he and Monzon are the best in the last 50yrs. Hopkins the most overrated by modern fight fans as he fought in the worst Middleweight division in the last 5o yrs because of the Supermiddleweight division which ruined both the Middleweight and Lt.Heavyweight divisions by stealing talent from those divisions. Middleweights who didn`t want to train hard to get to 160 and Lt. Heavyweights who train hard to get a size advantage over those fat Middleweights.
I rated Ketchel so high because he fought two great heavyweights, Langford and Johnson, and gave them good fights. He fought twenty rounds on several occasions and also had a high KO percentage. Also beat Phil. Jack Obrien, light heavy champ. His viciousness in the ring ranks up there with that of Dempsey. If not for early death, experts would rate him higher, IMO.