Greatest MW & SMW since 1990?

As I said aboev, I can certainly see a case for him being the best at both....and light heavy:deal

 

Talent aside, you have to weigh resume when determining greatness. Even if it isn't weighted much more heavily than talent, there simply isn't enough there on Jones' to balance the scales against Hopkins' (at 160) and Calzaghe's (at 168).

Jones 160: (after the Pensacola homestand: first 15 fights bouncing back and forth between 154 and 160, from TKO2 Randall up to KO8 Yarbrough - all "whatever" wins)

KO1 Vaca - good result over a good name, but honestly also a past-prime and somewhat fragile welterweight.
TKO1 Serwano - whatever.
UD10 Castro - decent win.
UD12 Hopkins - very good win. Not great as Hopkins would get much better, but not merely "OK" as some think. Very good
TKO2 Tate - good win

5-0 (3). 2 title fights.

That's it. From the time of his first somewhat serious opponent, 5 fights at 160. None of them better than "very good", and one of them completely forgettable.

Jones 168:

KO8 Thomas - undefeated, and later went the distance with Toney, McCallum, Nunn. Decent win.
TKO4 Harris - whatever.
TKO1 Wolfe - whatever.
KO6 Malinga - good win.
UD10 Chirino - decent win.
KO6 Garcia - whatever.
UD12 Toney - very good win.
TKO1 Byrd - OK win.
TKO6 Pazienza - good win.
TKO3 Thornton - OK win.
RTD11 Lucas - good win.
TKO2 Brannon - good win.

12-0 (10), 6 title fights.

Again capping off with "very good" (1), a few good (4), a few decent/OK (4), and some whatever (3).

Compare to Hopkins 160 (again, skipping the likes of KO1 Shabazz and TKO1 Sapp before he settled on a weight and stepped up in class):

TKO1 Powell - decent win.
UD12 Baptist - whatever.
LUD12 Jones - loss.
TKO7 Ritchie - decent win.
TKO3 Hall - decent win.
UD12 Aquino - good win.
D12 Mercado - draw.
TKO7 Mercado - good win.
TKO1 Frank - whatever.
KO4 Lipsey - decent win.
TKO11 James - decent win.
TKO7 Jackson - good win.
TKO11 Johnson - very good win.
UD12 Council - decent win.
TKO6 Brown - decent win.
TKO7 Allen - decent win.
UD12 Echols - good win.
UD12 Vanderpool - good win.
TKO10 Echols - good win.
UD12 Holmes - good win.
TKO12 Trinidad - very good win.
TKO10 Daniels - good win.
RTD8 Hakkaer - good win.
UD12 Joppy - good win.
UD12 Allen - decent win.
KO9 De La Hoya - good win.
UD12 Eastman - good win.
LUD12 Taylor - loss
LSD12 Taylor - loss

That's 26-3-1 (17). 24 title fights. Most decent or good opposition.


and Calzaghe 168 (starting with his first British SMW title bid):

TKO8 Wilson - OK win.
TKO2 Brooks - whatever.
TKO5 Delaney - decent win.
TKO2 Stowe - decent win.
TKO2 Lawlor - decent win.
TKO2 Christie - whatever.
KO1 Hughes - decent win.
TKO3 Torres - decent win.
UD12 Eubank - very good win.
TKO3 Sobot - good win.
RTD9 Ferreryra - good win.
SD12 Reid - very good win.
UD12 Thornberry - good win.
UD12 Starie - good win.
TKO5 Sheika - good win.
TKO10 Woodhall - very good win.
TKO1 Veit - good win.
TKO4 McIntyre - good win.
UD12 Brewer - good win.
UD12 Jimenez - good win.
TKO2 Podwill - whatever.
TKO2 Mitchell - good win.
TKO7 Mkrtchyan - decent win.
UD12 Salem - good win.
TKO6 Veit - good win.
UD12 Ashira - good win.
UD12 Lacy - very good win.
UD12 Bika - good win.
TKO3 Manfredo - whatever.
UD12 Kessler - great win.

30-0 (19), 22 title fights. Most good or decent, a couple whatever, a couple very good and one great.


The bulk of Jones' accomplishments and most of his title fights (17 - more than double his MW and SMW title fights combined) came at light heavyweight.

 

If Kessler is a great win, Toney and Trinidad should be too IMO.

Good post IB, as always :good

 

Thanks.

Yeah, no push-back on your amendment there. Those values were assigned on the fly fight-by-fight without any strict criteria established for them other than quick-sketch opinion. The language of the values is vague enough as to have some budge room on a couple.

Looking back, with my having valued 160 Johnson, 160 Hopkins, and Reid all as "very good" it does stand to reason that Trinidad and Toney should be classed above them...closer to par with Kessler. :good

 

Would it be fair to say Jones would be ranked 2nd at both weights then? And first at 175?

 

Since 1990? More than fair. :good

The brevity of his resumes at 160 and 168 stands up better against beefier ones like 160 Sturm's that lack the quality of 160 Hopkins'.

 

Hey, don't underestimate the offensive beast that is Keiji Sato! :nono ;-)