Greatest Pro Boxers Who Never Received Title Shot?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Italian Stallion, Jan 13, 2020.


  1. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Thanks I think so. Perhaps the best white boxer ever (beside Lopez and Greb) is he.
     
  2. BeerGut

    BeerGut Member Full Member

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    Didn't Sam Burns manage the Finnegans? I thought Hill was the trainer.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This should be enshrined and headline all your posts,it completely encapsulates all that you are!
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes you're right ,and I am wrong, Hill was the trainer Burns the manager .Burns was Solomons man but a good guy .
    Sam became a big wheel in William Hill's betting empire.He managed Downes too,but you know that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  5. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Active Member Full Member

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    Oh good Lord yeah.
     
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  6. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Active Member Full Member

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    Good point well made Gut. Dear old Sam signed up Sibbo on Kevin's advice.
     
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  7. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Active Member Full Member

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    I guess, just like you, I have been lucky enough to have met quite a few of these fellas Mac. Only Jim Watt and Terry Downes wound up OK financially. Jim through a friend who let him buy 50% of Glasgow's biggest BMW dealership, then his brilliant commentary for 30 years. Terry and Sam had 19 betting offices which they sold to Billy Hill. Sam somehow got them on the Board.
    The rest wound up pretty much abandoned and broke.
    I was an amateur with Birmingham City. We shared a palatial gym with the Lynch Brothers stable. I know what most of those lads are doing now because Paddy and Tommy looked after them beyond retirement. Tommy taught Pat Cowdell to play Golf. Tony Willis is foreman at their yard in Liverpool. When Lyndon, Paddy and Tommy's company need outside catering for an event, Kostas Petrou gets the job.
    When Charlie Magri was bashed up by Duke McKenzie, Lawless just said " Well you'll have to work for a living now ". No help, no guidance, nowt. Back in the 80's Lawless wouldn't speak to Mo because he was managing Fighters. Lawless just saw him as a rival.
    That's what I mean by callous.
    Reg Gutteridge once asked Levene for a contribution to a Boxers' benevolent fund. Levene just stared at him and said " Reggie, on me you cannot depend ".
    If you can't look after Boxers from cradle to grave then you shouldn't be allowed to. They give their best years.
    Erm, bit of a rant. Sorry Mac but I come from a family of Fighters. I was a Fighter. My eldest son is a Fighter. And in this sometimes great and sometimes disgusting sport of ours, only Fighters matter.
     
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  8. thistle

    thistle Member Full Member

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    LoadedGlove

    there is something about British life that differs us from a lot of other western countries. Callous is the right word, far too many of us here have a general disdain for others when it comes right down to it.

    other places too, of course, but in Britain it is present and underlying ready for action. I personally put it down to FORCED Hardship, the British working class was second rate to the upper classes and aristocracy. so jumping ahead a little into recent years with more opportunity afforded them like no time previous, they not only kill for it, they arrogant deem everyone less who doesn't have or hold the same reality.

    Precisely what the Crown and Upper Classes did to them/us for centuries.

    again similar truths anywhere, but the British attitude towards whom 'they' deem as less is appalling really.

    Now back to the CORRUPT and B ullsh i t world of Boxing, well just add the prevailing psyche to that corrupt guarding greedy mind. It's not a pleasant mix and fighters and or some people just Don't Matter, and never will until the heart is changed and softened.

    It's a terrible Blight on Old Blighty.
     
  9. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Active Member Full Member

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    What I find particularly distasteful Thistle is that Levene and Duff had come from poverty themselves. They became wealthy men, Levene spectacularly so, and there was no reason they couldn't have helped their Fighters when they finished Boxing. They chose not to.
    I read recently that Charlie Magri is now riddled with arthritis and unable to work. He is flat broke and struggling to pay the rent on his Council flat on a nightmarish estate in the East End. When Terry Lawless died in the warmth and comfort of his Spanish villa, Charlie hadn't heard from him in over 25 years. I'm not old enough to remember but they say Solomons was even worse.
    To have profited from another man's pain, sweat and bloodshed and then to simply abandon him when he is no longer a source of income is beyond inhuman.
     
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  10. thistle

    thistle Member Full Member

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    Yes Loaded, confusing to say the least, and I concur 100%...

    again a lot of it has to do with a 'reactory' state of thinking that too many of us Brits have devolved into, which if directed at the Oppressors alone is understandable, but sadly for many of us it just becomes the demeaning way, even toward their own once fellow common man.

    Yes I heard Solomons was completely disregarding and even 'leaned' on Turpin with a Heavy Hand adding to Randolph's desperate state.

    I have some first hand insight into all of it and them dating back to the 1930s into the 60s and beyond through a family line of British Boxing.

    But for all the corruption in Boxing and the poor unfortunates it/they exploit, I'm more aggrieved by my fellowman who exerciser the same attitude and practices on or against people in General.

    a Quote from the Film Blood Diamond - "I sometimes wonder if God will ever forgive us for the things that we've done to one another? "then I remember God left this place a Longtime ago."

    I fear this is Britain.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Levene was notoriously tight,even Duff said that of him.
    Watt gave a very fulsome tribute to both Duff and Lawless in which he said they had turned around his life and made him a champion and financially comfortable.Of course they didn't do it for altruistic purposes they profited from his fights too. I saw a lot of Magri's fights without that team behind him he would not have made it to the top imo.
    He hopped forward like a large Magpie looking to land his big shots ,[he was a very decent puncher,] but his chin sometimes let him down and he won and lost the title against moderate opposition.
    I was there when Hope beat Mattioli in London ,and had that bruising thriller with the Argentinian who had Monzon as his chief second,again without the Cartels connections I doubt he would have made it to the championship.
    An important advantage they managed to exploit in many cases was the fact that being subsidised by home TV they could stand out for home advantage for their fighters.
    One cachet given to Duff by Alan Minter was the following,"if my Son follows me into the pro game Id like you to manage him".Minters own manager Bidwell was not of their calibre imo.
    Duke McKenzie was at Duff's funeral and paid a nice tribute to him.
    So did Billy Schwer.
    Duff was not responsible for what fighters did with their purses,Mugabi for instance was a nonsense with money. Bruno earned extremely well from Duff's promotions and match making ,for example he earned many times more for his challenge to Witherspoon than Witherpsoon ,the defending champion received.

    Would Stracey,a very good fighter ,but never a great one, Mckenzie,Boza Edwards,Mugabi,Honeyghan,have risen to the top without the trio of Astaire,Duff,Lawless[Barrett was bought out for £250,000,] behind them?
    Would they have achieved challenger status without the canny matching of opponents at the right time ?
    The vociferous lobbying to get them installed as the mandatory challenger ?
    As you are very aware, boxing is a hard game ,the hardest game in sport ,and by and large boxers are working class lads without the sophistry and experience to handle, sudden large amounts of cash.Should we blame Duff and Co for their failure to put aside some of that hard earned dosh for those rainy days when their all too brief careers are over?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  12. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Active Member Full Member

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    Fabulous post Mac. Pity we're not having this chat over a beer. I completely agree that the Cartel knew the business inside out and exploited every advantage to their Fighters' benefit career wise. Both Magri and Bruno were guided superbly as neither was really elite level and the timing of Stracey's challenge to a shot Napoles was managerial genius,
    I know that Jim Watt has never missed the chance to praise Duff and Lawless in particular for his faith when Jim was about to cash in his chips. Billy Schwer was Duff's last Fighter before he retired and there was always a particular closeness between them. The same goes for Barrett and Gary Jacobs.
    As a black Fighter in the 70's, brilliant though he was, Maurice Hope would not have got beyond British Title level without the Cartel behind him.
    The crux of it is in your last line. Yes, I do think that the headshed should have made provision for their Fighters' futures because they could. There was no reason for them not to. Barry Hearn set up pension funds for all his Fighters. Astaire, Duff and Levene could have lead the way in doing this but they chose not to.
     
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  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    It could be argued if Marciano or Chavez can be ranked higher, but I don't think so.

    But you got exposed years ago as complete ignorant.
     


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