Greatest Welterweights in History

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mteslamiller, May 12, 2022.



  1. Mteslamiller

    Mteslamiller Member Full Member

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    Drew101, please see the amended list.
     
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  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ray Leonard pulled it off. That's why he's ranked no 2 or no 3 ever. It's his finest hour.

    That doesn't mean others could pull it off. It means the second, maybe third, best ever welterweight could do it. Big difference.

    Also, when you factor in resumes, don't stop looking at who Tommy beat in title fights. He'd fought some decent guys on the way to the title as well.
     
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Barkley and Hagler had little issue laying Hearns out. Roldon rocked him. That stoppage is not about Leonard doing something that's inconceivable. Hearns was great but vulnerable, meaning less great and more vulnerable at 147 than 154.

    Look at Mosley; he won lineal at 147 (the hard way) twice with about a decade in between. Beating Cuevas and a couple of Benitez's leftovers doesn't compare.
     
  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I did a top fifty last year, this was it:

    #50. Izzy Jannazzo
    #49. Benny Paret
    #48. Rube Ferns
    #47. Dave Shade
    #46. Vernon Forrest
    #45. Pipino Cuevas
    #44. Jimmy Leto
    #43. Joe Dundee
    #42. Jack Carroll
    #41. Pete Latzo
    #40. Young Peter Jackson
    #39. Marlon Starling
    #38. Young Jack Thompson
    #37. Mysterious Billy
    #36. Carlos Palomino
    #35. Mike Glover
    #34. Cocoa Kid
    #33. Billy Graham
    #32. Shane Mosley
    #31. Donald Curry
    #30. Holman Williams
    #29. Wilfred Benitez
    #28. Jackie Fields
    #27. Manny Pacquiao
    #26. Charley Burley
    #25. Pernell Whitaker
    #24. Felix Trinidad
    #23. Roberto Duran
    #22. Lou Broulliard
    #21. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
    #20. Tommy Hearns
    #19. Curtis Cokes
    #18. Young Corbett III
    #17. Oscar De La Hoya
    #16. Carmen Basilio
    #15. Fritzie Zivic
    #14. Joe Walcott
    #13. Jimmy McLarnin
    #12. Tommy Ryan
    #11. Barney Ross
    #10. Ted Kid Lewis
    #09. Mickey Walker
    #08. Luis Rodriguez
    #07. Jose Napoles
    #06. Emile Griffith
    #05. Kid Gavilan
    #04. Henry Armstrong
    #03. Jack Britton
    #02. Ray Leonard
    #01. Sugar Ray Robinson
     
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  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    You’re complaining about Hearns in the top 10 and then suggest Spence and Crawford could be? They don’t deserve any mention near the top 10 or top 20 imo.

    Hearns had some very good pre-title wins as well as a short but impressive title reign - he beat a dominant champ and lost to a guy who is second or third on most lists and it was a monumental come-from-behind effort from Leonard to do it. Hearns showed more in that defeat than most fighters show in victory.

    Now, I’ve always felt that Hearns is a somewhat debatable top 10 pick at welter but he’s not that far outside if he isn’t in it. But he did something Spence and Crawford didn’t do - he attempted to be the best in his division. If Spence and Crawford have the balls to face off against each other, then the winner might be worthy of some consideration in these lists. Until then, they shouldn’t be mentioned in threads like these.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  6. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Here’s my accomplishment/resumé v H2H ratio:
    accomplishment/resumé: 100%
    H2H: 0%
     
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    What you're doing is totally bending the criteria because you're a Hearns fan. Couldn't give af about your rose colored viewpoint about how dey usta fight the best!

    Cuevas, Shields, Weston, Bruce Curry, washed Clyde Gray<Brook, Porter, Ugas, D Garcia, M Garcia, Peterson, Van Heerden

    Crawford cuts it closer since he moved up relatively recently, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he just stopped Porter and didn't get stopped like Hearns.

    The irony here is that you elevate Hearns for being dominant against his comp and downgrade Spence and Crawford for doing the exact same thing (without getting stopped).
     
  8. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    What a disingenuous post. You rate Crawford for not getting stopped like Hearns did… when he fought Shawn Porter. Is that the great Shawn Porter you’re referring to? Yeah, that’s the same as fighting Sugar Ray Leonard, isn’t it?

    No, I downgrade Spence and Crawford for not fighting each other. Who is better? Spence or Crawford? Nobody knows yet because they haven’t risked it against each other. If they do, I’ll happily reassess my position on both of them. And if one of them performs as well, even in defeat, as Hearns did against Leonard, I’ll factor that in too.
     
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  9. Mteslamiller

    Mteslamiller Member Full Member

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    Solid list. Jack Britton at no. 3 over Henry Armstrong? Wow. That’s something. Hearns, Trinidad, Whitaker, and Mayweather are low. There are some surprising choices . Ray Robinson at no.1 is a given , and SRL at no. 2 hits it on the head. George Crowcroft, thanks for displaying your list.—Mark
     
  10. Mteslamiller

    Mteslamiller Member Full Member

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    Jel, that’s cool. It’s good to let people know where you stand.
     
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  11. Mteslamiller

    Mteslamiller Member Full Member

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    Jel, I agree with the sentiments expressed in your post. There is a good deal to see from Spence and Crawford before we can rank them. I believe that by the time their careers end they will be seen as welterweight greats. Especially Errol Spence, whom I suspect will prove to be superior to Crawford very soon. Your points on Thomas Hearns were spot on as well.
     
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  12. Mteslamiller

    Mteslamiller Member Full Member

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    He was definitely a great welterweight.
     
  13. fenoc1

    fenoc1 Active Member Full Member

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    He beat 3 all time greats in their prime. (Hearns, Duran, Hagler). Took 3 years out (took a lot of drugs) jumped up two weight divisions and beat Hagler who is in top 2 greatest middleweight of all time. He done it all
     
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  14. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was less vulnerable at 147 (or 154) because he was fighting guys who weighed that. I don't understand your point. In the same way Michael Spinks was less vulnerable at light heavy than heavyweight.

    The guys you have listed are big strong middleweights or, in Hagler's case, one of the best ever middleweights. Of course Tommy was more vulnerable against them. He may not have been as strong at 147 but nor were his opponents.

    And if I do look at Shane Mosley, I see someone who couldn't get past Vernon Forrest who, with all due respect, was very much a lesser version of Tommy Hearns in all departments. Beating Pipino Cuevas stacks up nicely against that.
     
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  15. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    De La Hoya
    Hatton
    Cotto
    Clottey
    Margarito
    Mosley

    yeah you could say De LaHoya and Mosley were past their best but that Pacman that tore went through that list of fighters during that period of time was unbelievably good. Think many had that Welterweight Pacman as the p4p best around that time. Pacquiao vs money Mayweather would have been a great matchup around 09-10, the 2 best p4p fighters in the game at that time. Not saying Pacman would’ve definitely won cos Mayweather was a special fighter too who somehow always found a way to win but people here forget what a great h2h fighter Welterweight Pacquiao was around the late 2000s
     
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