Greatest wins of James J Jeffries?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Feb 2, 2019.



  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    The accounts I've seen said he threw his gloves away because he was pissed off, and declared he'd never box again.
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Adam Pollack has weighed in on the wraps issue previously.

    It seems that Fitzsimmons obtained very liberal terms for warping his hands, during the negotiations for this fight, having argued that it was necessary because of his hand problems.

    After the fight Jeffries seems to have become somewhat paranoid on the issue, insisting on meticulous inspection of his opponents wraps.

    Reading between the lines, Jeffries probably made some very inadvisable concessions on the wraps, and paid the price for it!
     
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  3. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Difference being, they fought nothing alike. Hart was a swarmer and was all over Johnson from the start, and pretty much got outboxed for his troubles. Jeffries was that type of fighter and more of the slow stalker type. The slow stalker type will never work with Johnson. I feel that from any point past 04', Johnson would've outclassed Jeffries.
     
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    He didn't go slow stalker vs Sharkey , Ruhlin, Jackson or Munroe .. Johnson did not have the punch to hold him off or keep him cautious .. he'd have to fight
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fitz also asked for extra wraps against Ruhlin,his hands were quite bad by then.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He didnt attack Sharkey ,he waited for him to come in and then countered him.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Electoral?Desired? Some form of code I expect?
    According to the Examiner Fitz took the 1st,the 2nd was Even, Fitz took the 3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th.
     
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Asked for a speech Fitz said"the best man won I can't whip Jeffries and no one else can. This is my last fight ,"he then threw his gloves into the crowd. If he had anything illegal in them why wouldn't he just keep possession of them?
    I've worn electrical tape if Fitz had it on,Jeffries would have felt it when he examined his hands.
    "He seemed faster and stronger than when I met him before and he reached my head much oftener,but I always had my jaw covered and I knew he could not hit me hard enough on the body to put me out.I am so much bigger and heavier than he is that I knew I would wear him out"Jeffries interviewed by the Chronicle post fight.
    "Well I won but I'll have to give it to Fitz for being the best old man in the world.he certainly gave me the hardest run for eight rounds that I have had in my career.Geez but I look pretty well cut up." Jeffries interviewed by the Call post fight.
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    To a degree but Sharkey spent the fight tearing in at him so there was constant action.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    In that fight Sharkey was pro active, Jeffries re-active, which was his more usual MO.
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I think were kind of splitting hairs here .. Jeffries did not box Sharkey he fought him. When Jeffries chose to be offensive he was .. there is virtually no doubt that he was much better than Hart, much better than the shell that fought Johnson in Reno , fully capable of fighting moving forward and that if he fought Johnson in 05 or 06 it would have been a completely different fight. I do not know who would have won but Johnson would have had to fight with the aggression he showed against Willard in the early rounds and the skill of the Burns fight if he was to have a real shot of winning.
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Where have you seen Hart box? He was a right hand try hard type, a notch below Sharkey and Marciano. Jeffries could box, swarm or slug, depending on the situation and upped ante when he needed to. By 1904, according to those who saw him, Jeffries had improved.

    If Hart who was smaller and slower than Jeffries and did not hit as hard could shut Johnson down in 1905, Jeffries demolishes him in 1904.
     
  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Adam Pollack covered a ton of Hart and the portrait was of a very under rated forgotten fighter who was a very tough, aggressive, swarming, strong chinned kind of Gatti of his day .. He certainly was a fighter, not just some pudgy, barrel chested guy we think of from the handful of photos surviving .. however he was not an all time great heavyweight and the biggest question on Johnson to me is why/, in his physical prime ( age 28 ) , in a huge fight where he knew the significance and had time to properly prepare was Hart so competitive despite maybe getting a gift decision ? Burns was able to outfox him and make him look foolish but not Johnson ?

    There is only a few takeaways. One is that Johnson stubbornly fought a typical Johnson fight despite knowing the risks of unfair decisions and went cautious, kind of like Hagler against Vito 1. Another is that Hart is far better than a Gatti. Another is that maybe , just maybe Johnson is not that great and that a hell bent , tough as nails, highly motivated and strong swarmer with a terrific chin and strength and punch output exposed him. I personally think it's mostly the first , some of the second and possibly a tiny pinch of the last. If there was ever a fight for Johnson to shine that was it and he blew it if he deserved the decision or not.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries was undoubtedly better than Hart and I said so in a previous post on this thread, so I dont know where the bone of contention is there?
    Jeffries was obviously also a lot better than the facsimile of him that turned up at Reno ,so again I can't see any dispute?
    Jeffries did not stalk Sharkey he waited for him to attack him and countered him, we can see this on the film and in the written accounts of the fight.Jeffries stalked Ruhlin and again we can see that on film ,it is the only film we have of Jeffries attacking and the general opinion of him was that he usually was content to wait for leads ,as he did in the first Corbett fight until he was behind and his manager chucked Ryan out of his corner and shouted at him to go in for the ko or resign himself to losing his title.. I didn't realise we were discussing a match between prime versions of Johnson and Jeffries,I thought the thread was solely about Jeffries?
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Where have you? lol
    Hart didn't shut Johnson down he barely won a round in the first half of the fight and finished with his face looking like raw hamburger whilst Johnson was unmarked at the finish.

    Shut him down?
    Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)


    I suppose if you repeat lies often enough you come to believe them yourself?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019