Greatest wins of James J Jeffries?

Johnson developed late physically, in the photo with Hart he looks slighter than he does in later fights with that added muscle he presumably gained more strength?

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Hart won the fight. Get over it already. Johnson who had the biggest chance of his life fell flat, doing very little in the second half of the fight. Hence he shut him down. On one of the later rounds, Johnson threw a grand total of one punch.

Johnson own corner urged him to pick up the pace. Hart's pacing and perhaps body work was just too much for him. Sure his face was a raw hamburger? Any photos? Red faces don't count for points, back then making the fight did, just as it does today.

As for Fitz vs Jeffries II, I already told you that some rounds were close, and Jeffries won rounds 7 and 8. I posted a round by round, and using the description, Fitz won two, Jeffries won two, the others were close to even.

As for Jeffries vs Fitz 1, it wasn't a tough night at all for Jeffries. He had Fitz down in rounds 2, 5, 10 and 11 for the count.

 

Jeffries vs Fitz 1

JEFFRIES A KINGPIN

(Los Angeles Daily Times, Sat., June 10, 1899)

By Direct Wire to The Times

CONEY ISLAND SPORTING CLUB (N.Y.), June 9 -- (Exclusive Dispatch) Big Jim
Jeffries of Los Angeles is the champion pugilist of the world. At the Coney
Island Athletic Club tonight he defeated Robert Fitzsimmons in a fast and
vicious contest that went eleven rounds. He fought with the coolness and
precision of a veteran, and at no time was he in danger of meeting with
defeat. It was a fair and square contest, marked by a brilliant display of
science on both sides, and was fairly and squarely won. The young Californian showed himself a master at every point in the game and won as he pleased after he had taken the measure of his opponent.

To those who had seen him before he offered the greatest surprise. He was no longer a clumsy, awkward boxer, hesitating to lead or to follow an advantage, but a finished fighter, keen and alert for an opening, and swift to take and follow an advantage when it came to him. He came to the ring in superb condition, and the first round that he fought had no apparent effect upon him. As he stood over the prostrate form of his bleeding and unconscious opponent he looked fit to go on for another hour. He was punished throughout the fight, for no man who never before met reverse, without being hit hard and often; but he stood up to it with a lion-like courage, and never faltered.

He showed an entirely different method of boxing. He crouched very low, with his left arm extended, and Fitzsimmons seemed lost as to the best method of finding him. His defense was nearly perfect. He also showed wonderful improvement in footwork and hitting power. He was as lively as a lightweight on his feet, and repeatedly ducked the undercutting swings of his opponent. He has stopped cuffing and chopping. He punches and hooks and swings with the precison of a finished boxer.

It was a great battle, and the young victor will probably remain the champion
for years to come. He has size, weight and speed, and the comparative ease
with which he defeated Fitz, whom they all feared, will give him wonderful
confidence.

FIGHT BY ROUNDS

CONEY ISLAND SPORTING CLUB (Ringside.) June 9 -- When time was called for the first round Bob dances as Jeffries feints. They break instantly, and Jeffries is short of a left jab for the head. Jeffries is short with a left again, but touches the wind and puts a left on the neck.

Second round -- Jeffries misses a left for the head, and Bob rushes and puts a left on the neck and a right over the heart. Jeffries closes into a light clinch, then, crouching, pushes a left to the stomach, but his right swing only grazes Bob's shoulder. Jeffries rushes two lefts to the wind and then jabs the face twice with the left. Fitz swings a right to the shoulder.
Jeffries shoots a straight left to the jaw and Bob goes down squarely. He is
soon up and starts to rush, but his left and right drives for the head are<BR>
neatly blocked.

Third round -- A clinch to open. Fitzsimmons missed a left, and Jeffries comes back with a left on the nose, and the claret shows on Fitzsimmons' face. Bob plants a good right over the heart, and after an exchange of left-handers, Fitzsimmons pokes the left to the neck, and Jeffries comes back hard on Fitzsimmons' ribs with a left, and a right to the stomach. Jeffries jabs the left twice to the face. Jeffries puts a stiff one on the stomach with the left and repeats it a little later. Fitzsimmons hooks a left to the ear, and his right goes over Jeffries' head, and an instant later Jeffries ducks another one. Now Jeffries ducks into a stiff left, catching it on the mouth. The men were sparring at the bell.

Fourth round -- Jeffries misses a left, but ducks Fitzsimmons' right swing.
Fitzsimmons misseds a left for the stomach, and Jeffries puts a good right
over the heart. His left for the wind is stopped, but he shoots a hard left to
the neck. Fitzsimmons smiles and hooks a right to the ear: Jeffries planting a sledge-hammer right over the heart. Another miss of Fitzsimmons' right draws Jeffries' right to his ribs. Fitzsimmons puts a light left to the mouth and brings his right to the ear, and Jeffries ducks into a stiff left swing. He rushes Bob to the ropes, good footwork carrying Fitzsimmons out of danger.

Fifth round -- Bob puts a left straight on the mouth and Jeffries misses a
left for the head. Fitz cuts the eye with his right. Both miss lefts. Bob
shoots a left to the bad eye and swings to the ear with the same glove. Bob
puts a left straight on the mouth, and Jeffries misses a left for the head.
Fitz cuts Jeffries' eye with his right. Both miss lefts. Bob shoots a left to
the bad eye and swings to the ear with the same glove. Jeffries sends a left
to the wind and a right to the ribs. Fitz rushes and puts a left on the neck,
and Jeffries misses a savage left swing. Jeffries shoots a straight left to
Fiz's mouth and Fitz tries a left for the solar plexus. Jeffries plants a left
on the chin, then jabs the face with a short-arm left. Fitzsimmons misses two lefts, and Jeffries hooks the right, sending Bob to his knees. He is up in a jiffy, and Jeffries pushes a right on the ribs and a left on the nose, Bob
replying with a light left on the head. At the close Jeffries jabs.
Fitzsimmons gets a left on the stomach. Jeffries' work has pleased his
friends, but Bob's friends feel as confident as ever.

Sixth round -- Fitz was up and ready ten seconds before the gong. He swings a right to the back of Jeffries' ear, then jabs the latter's face with the left,Jeffries countering with his left on the mouth. Bob jabs a left to the chin,
but misses a right, and Jeffries swings a left to the forehead. Jeffries ducks
with a right hook on the ear. They swap left-facers and Bob misses a right
swing, Jeffries smashing the wind with the right. Bob puts Jeffries across the ring.

Seventh round -- Fitzsimmons runs Jeffries across the ring, but is short with
the left, and Jeffries sends a hot left to the face. They come together,
Jeffries' right slapping Bob's side, sounding like a drum. Jeffries barely
touches the chin, Bob stopping handsomely. Jeffries clinches against the next two leads, but Bob puts a right on the ear. Jeffries answering with a right on the ribs. Fitzsimmons lands a light left on the neck, then a straight left to the mouth. Both miss lefts, then swap rights on the head. Fitzsimmons stops Jeffries' swing, and puts two lefts on the mouth and neck, cutting the mouth severely. Jeffries' left goes over the shoulder and Bob digs a right wickededly under the heart. The gong then sounds.

Eighth round -- Jeffries' legs are worked upon vigorously by his attendant.
Bob puts a left to the neck, but misses a right swing. Jeffries sends a left
to the ribs. He missed a right swing. Jeffries put a left to the ribs, Bob
putting a straight one on the mouth. Bob put a left to the neck, but misses a right swing. Bob misses a right, and Fitz jolts Jeffries with the left; then shoots to the mouth and follows again to the jaw. There are two clinches, and Jeffries shoves a right to the ribs, Fitz reaching the chin with his left. Fitz sent a straight left to the eye, Jeffries touching to the stomach with
his left. Bob sent a left over Jeffries' shoulder, and Jeffries swings his
left a foot over Bob's head. A straight left on the jaw sends Fitz reeling to
the ropes. Out in the center he clinches, then swings a hard left to Jeffries'
head. The bell rings.

Ninth round -- Jeffries jabs a left on the mouth. Another left from Jeffries
to the mouth, and then he hits to the neck. The men swap rights. Jeffries'
left draws more blood from Bob's nose. Bob misses a right, and Jeffries puts
right on the ribs. Jeffries' left finds the chin and Jeffries pokes a left to
the face. Bob comes back with a straight left on the mouth. Jeffries swings
twice with the left on the head. Fitz hooks a left to the neck. They swap
lefts on the head. Bob plants a left on the neck.

Tenth round -- Jeff springs in and hugs Bob. After the break he pokes a left
to Bob's chest, then a left to the jaw, Bob replying with a left on the eye.
Fitz misses a left hook, ducking nicely Jeff's right, and is stopped by Bob's
elbow. Bob puts a left on the cheek, Jeffries missing his answer. Fitz misses
a left and a right swing, and Jeffries jabs a left to the mouth. Fitz crowds
him to the corner. Jeffries shoots a straight to the jaw. Bob falls flat on
his back and takes eight seconds to arise. When he gets up Jeffries stung a
right to the neck, and again Bob is down. He gets up, but is sent to his knees
by a left, when he arises he clinches and the bell is heard. Just as the bell
sounds Fitz swings a wild left. Fitz is very groggy.


Eleventh round -- Fitz was up briskly for this round. He misses a left for the
head. Jeffries clinches. Fitz misses a right jab, Jeffries jolting the neck
with a left. Fitz uses a left on the stomach and a right on the chest. Fitz
misses a right, and Jeffries plants a right over the heart. Jeffries sent a
straight left to the mouth, sending Bob's head back, but Bob is still there.
He puts a left on the shoulder. Jeffries puts a right on the wind and a left
to the eye. Two more lefts from Jeffries on Bob's head, then Jeffries jabs the
left twice like lightning. Now two left swings go to the neck and jaw, and a
right swing is sent to the point of the jaw and the Cornishman falls prone.

He falls on his side and rolls over on his back. The referee counts 1, 2, 3,<BR>
4, 5, 6. Bob rolls over. Then 7, 8, 9, 10. Fitzsimmons is out, and Jeffries is
champion of the world. The referee waves his hands to the seconds to carry
Fitzsimmons to his corner. They lift him, still unconscious, and sit him in
his chair. He revives rapidly.


>>>Fitz down in round 2, 5 ( for a no count but down ) 10, and 11. This wasn't a tough fight for Jeffries.

 

My argument is your ridiculous assertion that Hart shut him down.Many astute judges including George Siler thought Johnson had been robbed.
No doubt the fight was close, in any close fight neither fighter shuts the other down.
We have the myriad newspaper accounts of the fight describing Hart's injuries ,do you dispute them? Here is the Washington Post's view.
"Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)
Do you accept it or not?


I suppose if you repeat lies often enough you come to believe them yourself?

Fitzsimmons won 6 of the first 7 rounds in the 2nd Jeffries according to the ringside report of the Examiner.
Pollack has detailed accounts in his bio of Jeffries and they tally with this, but of course you wouldn't accept them! I never mentioned the 1st Fitz fight.

Why was this," the biggest chance of Johnson's life"?
Jeffries had already stated in print that if Johnson won, he would not defend against him!

 

Johnson was three days away from being 27 years old. What fighter isn't in his prime by 27 years of age?! What was Johnson for this fight? 190 pounds. Same as Burns, correct? Yes, I think so. Bottom line, Johnson was in his prime for this fight.

When Johnson fought men near his size with ability, and they were not green or young, he often lost or drew: Klondike, Choysnki, Griffin, and Hart. Okay. Choysnki and Griffin were likely a bit past their prime when they met Johnson. Each of the above men defeated him! I'll skip the more obscure draws for now.

By contrast, Johnson had a significant age advantage ov Sam McVey who was a teenager when they fought. Langford who was estimated to be 20 years old and 156 pounds. Joe Jeanette had no amatuer experience who took up boxing late. His known record was 0-3 record when he first met Johnson, later on being .500 or below in a few of the other matches.

So if you want to talk about who was physically devleoped in Johnson's fights, I saved you some time.

 

Referee Greggains stated that he gave the decision to Hart, because all through the fight Hart did all the forcing and leading. According to Greggains, if Hart had not pursued his tactics there would have been no fight, as Johnson merely contented himself with countering.

Prove to me Siler was at this fight. And by the way he and Johnson were chummy. Using the photo you posted, it's not an early round photo. You see those who study things will note there is a lot of water already in the ring apron. Hart's face doesn't look bad to me.

It would be wise to read fight reports and stop piece mailing what you read somewhere to pass it off as your only option. As stated Jeffries won rounds 7, and 8. Show me a report that swards Fitzsimmons won 6 of the first 7 rounds! I'm think you can not! Geez, you're so full of &H^& you should have flush handles for ears.

Jeffries said post Munroe that Johnson was one of his possibilities. We read it here. Are you telling me if there was a $100,000 purse for Jeffries to fight Johnson in 1905-1906, he would say no? As Jeffries told Johnson when he was asking for a fight ( and offered one in private which Johnson declined ) he can't draw flies. The live gate back was key to getting paid.

 

Huh? He didn't have the punch...he easily KO'd him when they did meet. He could've done so at anytime according to most. Jeffries didn't suffer some bad KO's prior to his retirement and his jaw was since compromised. He had no such signs or trauma prior to retirement so I see no reason why he chin suddenly disappeared and thus Johnson could turn the trick. It seems obvious to me Johnson had the power to always turn the trick if he landed enough.

Next, Jeffries, even in the fights you listed fought nothing like Hart and wasn't as aggressive as Hart. So that comparison falls a little flat for me. I'm not seeing it.

 

He was 28 and about 190 or 192, the same weight he fought Burns ... he put on 15 pounds or so later on but it was likely for a richer lifestyle .. I sincerely doubt he was any different physically from 28 to 30 ... he was also fighting a tiny 5'7" , 168 pound guy in Burns and looked bigger. Against Ketchell too.

 

Johnson said his peak was against Jeffries for which he was 208lbs,ie 18lbs heavier than190lbs, but WTF would he know?
Who would bother to debate with you on this ?

 

Do you see any evidence of surplus weight on Johnson in the fight with Jeffries,[ who was not 5'7" and168lbs ,]in1910, for which fight he was 208lbs and ,as he stated he was in shape of his life? Johnson had added 16lbs of muscle since the Burns fight and since the Hart one, I think that would give him added strength and possibly power,is that an unreasonable supposition to make?

 

Prove to me he wasn't? Doing," all the forcing and leading," only counts if you are landing punches! Siler and Johnson were not chummy ,and it wasn't very long ago you asserted Siler wasn't a fan of Johnson's!
I have multiple fight reports of the Hart fight.
The Examiner gave Jeffries the 8th rd with the 2nd even, it gave all the other rds of the Fitz,v Jeffires fight to Fitz except obviously the 8th which was the last rd, so Jeffries won just the one round!
The news report is in Pollack's book on Jeffries.
Jeffries never said he would consider Johnson as a title opponent and I challenge you to produce a primary sourced quote from him saying so .
For once in your life can you just stop with all the lies?
I can produce 20 quotes from Jeffries stating he would never entertain defending his title against a black man ,except he used a rather more offensive term than "black man!"
You got one thing right ,it isn't an early round photo and Hart's face does look unmarked .

That's because it's a posed photo that was taken BEFORE the fight began!lol

JUST HOW ****ING DUMB ARE YOU?lol

 

Yes, he looks much more cut against Burns than he does against Jeffries, no comparison. Look I have no interest in one of these endless round and rounds ... I feel at 28 Johnson was in his physical prime. I feel that when he fought Hart he was a professional for over seven years , had over forty pro fights and was ready. He just didn't step up.

 

I agree Johnson blew it, with the odds stacked against him he should have put the issue beyond doubt.
If you have no interest in responding to posts why do so ? Its not compulsory,I thought we were having a polite back and forth exchange without rancour on either side.
I can trump the" idiot" any time I wish if all I require is an endless wrangle.

 

So you can't prove Geroge Siler was at the fight. I thought so. You're wrong so often, no one here should take your word, especially on these type of topics. Siler liked Johnson ( the boxer ). Read his book on the matter if you want to learn.

Jeffries won the 7th, the Examiner which you did not post here is wrong!

Jeffries stance on who would fight next changed. He did fight black Hank Griffin as champion, so to me that crossing the color line. Had Griffin won via KO, he's the next lineal champion. He also returned to defend his lineal title vs. Johnson old, and rusty and did mention Johnson as a possible title opponent to the press post-Munroe. All facts. Unless you think a teenaged Sam Mcvey who out of boxing for a year should have been given a title shot, Jeffries pretty much fought the best out there. Sure you can say Johnson in 1903-1904, but he lost early in 1905. So his window as the #1 contender was rather short, wasn't it? This is not a case of Jack Dempsey ducking Harry Willis for many years.

As for the color line, Johnson drew it early after he beat Burns, and used it to avoid the best talent more than any other champion in history. That's a fact. Joe Jeanette said " As soon as Johnson won't he championship he drew the color line against his own people. " OUCH.

You remain a Moron despite you claim of a 137 IQ!

You might be right for once. Just prove to me the photo was taken before Hart vs Johnson started if you can...

 

Here is Jeffries after the Burns Johnson fight.

"James J. Jeffries wrote: "Tommy Burns has his price—$30,000. Burns has sold his pride, the pride of the Caucasian race...The Canadian never will be forgiven by the public for allowing the title of the best physical man in the world to be wrested from his keeping by a member of the African race....I refused time and again to meet Johnson while I was holding the title, even though I knew I could beat him. I would never allow a negro a chance to fight for the world's championship, and I advise all other champions to follow the same course"