Greatest wins of James J Jeffries?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Feb 2, 2019.



  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As usual you not only miss the point, you sail right past it! Race wasn't a huge issue regarding the heavyweight title because no blacks were allowed to challenge for it before Burns ,persuaded by the record purse of $30,000 gave Johnson the opportunity after being chased around the world for several years. John L Sullivan and Jim Jeffries both went into print condemning Burns for ,"having sold the title to a black man ." We have well documented offers to fight the trio of black challengers that Johnson accepted , we have the purse money offered, the promoters names ,and the locations for those projected defences,no matter how much you wriggle you can't get around them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 8:59 PM
  2. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    He also seems to have changed his mind on multiple offers demanding more money.

    It's utterly crazy to suppose a fight with Battling Jim Johnson could be arranged in defense of his title but not a fight with Langford.
    That simply defies all logic. The racial aspect would have been an issue there as well and Langford was a much bigger draw than Battling Jim Johnson.
     
  3. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    John L Sullivan and Jeffries are both Americans. Many other parts of the world were less virulently racist than America and didn't share the American obsession with keeping the title away from black people.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is very true.

    Black fighters got a much fairer shake in the UK during the bare knuckle era, and also in Australia during the late 19th/early 20th century.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We have been over this before I've produced verified quotes which you discarded,Im not going to waste any more time with either this, or your closed mind.The racial aspect was not such an issue in France where the Johnson fight was held, the issue there was none of the promoters there were willing to give the champion $30,000 to fight Langford.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    During the 1900's which was Johnson's era ,and for several decades no black man was allowed to fight for a British title.The then Home Secretary Winston Churchill vetoed a proposed title match between Johnson and Billy Wells on the grounds that if ,as was almost certain ,Johnson badly beat Wells it would encourage black British colonials to get ideas above their station.Johnson's proposed fights with McVey and Langford would have taken place had he not jumped bail, the fact that he did so and the lurid circumstances surrounding the case soured Australian opinion against the matches as McIntosh stated in a news paper article when giving his reason for pulling the plug on them.
    To address the thread which Mendoza has turned into a diatribe against Johnson and is now off track.
    Jeffries first win over Fitzsimmons has the most historical significance and the two Sharkey wins are runners up for the most meritorious imo.These are followed by the Corbett first defence.I discount Ruhlin because Fitz had already badly beaten him.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Any chance you might actually address the thread? ie Jeffries Best Wins.

    Or will you continue to be the one trick pony we all know and love?
     
  8. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    If promoters won't pay him 30, 000 than an easy solution is to fight for less. Pretty simple really. He fought for far less than 30,000 earlier in his career anyway.

    If people would stop defending the indefensible I wouldn't need to bring up Johnson and other duckers like Sullivan, Dempsey, and Willard.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think that thee is a legitimate issue here.

    If you are getting $30 000 a time for fighting guys like Al Kaufman and Fireman Flynn, you are going to want at least the same for somebody as dangerous as Sam Langford.

    Some of the early purses on offer for Langford, were a fraction of what he was getting for fighting these guys, and that is simply not realistic.
     
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  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Jeffries best win is Fitzsimmons.

    One thing I like about his reign is that he retired when he did and didn't spend his entire reign avoiding worthy opponents. Other champions drew the color line but Jeffries retired before it could tarnish his legacy.
     
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  11. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    I don't think guys like Al Kaufman and Flynn had any business fighting for the title in the first place. There were many men more deserving of a title shot who Johnson should have fought first.
     
  12. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There was already talk of him defending against McVea or Johnson prior to him retiring. It was for as long as Dempsey ducked Wills, but it was no doubt in print and there was noise for those two fights. He avoided them in print and in actuality
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Dude, that is why Sam Langford said. And since he fought McVey many times I'll take his word over yours easily. Ring up another wonder like comment from McVey!

    Also since your quoting Clay, Langford was just 20 years old. Okay, now its settled :)

    Sam says he was even lighter than 156 pounds, and he floored Johnson. His words and the French press thinks the same. The truth about if he floored Johnson is an unknown. But we knowJohnson pulled out of a signed contract to fight Langford as champion in 1909.

    Duck, duck, duck from 1909-1915!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 9:54 AM
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Johnson punches were not the main reason. Jeffries easily went 20 or 25 rounds with better punches. His age ( 35 ) , inactivity ( 6 years ), and the desert heat in July ( which averages a high of 92 degrees in Reno, Nevada ) had a lot to do with him tiring.

    I gave you a very modern day and days example in Leonard vs Camacho.

    Do you think Camacho could have stopped a younger and active Sugar Ray Leonard landing the same exact punches he did vs the older and shopworn version he faced? Yes or no?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 10:02 AM
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When he wasn't champion! Has anyone ever told you, you aren't strong on logic?
    If you would take the trouble to read the excellent biographies of both Jeffries and Johnson you would be a sight better informed on a subject which seems to be your only raison d'etre on this forum.


    Here's a novel idea ,why not comment on the subject of the thread?
    I'm sure the OP would be suitably gratified if you would deign to do so from time to time!
     

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