Greatest wins of James J Jeffries?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Feb 2, 2019.



  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    If promoters won't pay him 30, 000 than an easy solution is to fight for less. Pretty simple really. He fought for far less than 30,000 earlier in his career anyway.

    If people would stop defending the indefensible I wouldn't need to bring up Johnson and other duckers like Sullivan, Dempsey, and Willard. - Cojimar 1946


    QUOTE="mcvey, post: 19679346, member: 7828"]When he wasn't champion! Has anyone ever told you, you aren't strong on logic?
    If you would take the trouble to read the excellent biographies of both Jeffries and Johnson you would be a sight better informed on a subject which seems to be your only raison d'etre on this forum.

    Here's a novel idea ,why not comment on the subject of the thread?
    I'm sure the OP would be suitably gratified if you would deign to do so from time to time![/QUOTE]

    McVey,

    Cojimar 1946 is correct. Try embracing the facts...

    Johnson was the lineal champion in 1909. He ran from Sam Langford period! Also, you claim to know the purse amount from Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson. Okay, tell us the exact amount. Or admit you lied and aren't sure. It's not $30,000, now is it.:) Johnson could have fought ANYONE in France. Langford, Jeannette or McVey would have been a bigger purse for Johnson, I think. But he chose Battling Jim Johnson and escape with a draw where not one of the three judges felt he won, but one felt Battling Jim did!
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Haven't you said in the past and more than once that .
    1.Johnson did not punch very hard?
    2.He had a suspect chin?
    3. Johnson dropped the black trilogy multiple times not an easy feat.
    4. None of the three of them ever dropped him.
    I cut Jeffries some slack for his terrible showing against Johnson.
    Its a pity you cannot be as objective about a 37 years old Johnson fighting a giant in humid Havana in conditions that Willard described as "hot as hell",going 26rds and being in front when he became exhausted and was stopped.

    Ever stop to think how ludicrously biased you appear when you make one rule for Jeffries and yet another for Johnson?
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    McVey,

    Cojimar 1946 is correct. Try embracing the facts...

    Johnson was the lineal champion in 1909. He ran from Sam Langford period! Also, you claim to know the purse amount from Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson. Okay, tell us the exact amount. Or admit you lied and aren't sure. It's not $30,000, now is it.:) Johnson could have fought ANYONE in France. Langford, Jeannette or McVey would have been a bigger purse for Johnson, I think. But he chose Battling Jim Johnson and escape with a draw where not one of the three judges felt he won, but one felt Battling Jim did![/QUOTE]
    Lets cut to the chase you would give a like and endorse any clowns input if it disagreed with mine.That is the sum totally of the worth of your post ie valueless!
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Mcvey,

    You yourself said Johnson did not punch hard, his title reign was poor, and he makes your **** boil. Are you going to deny these words??!!

    Chins are best tested when hit. Ketchel who did not land much produced a large mark and floored Johnson. Smith, who can hit but was hardly a big puncher TKO'd him in the ex match in 1909. Choysnki had him out cold. Willard floored him for the count Those are the punchers who landed on him.

    If you can learn, a fighter on the Tony Ross level, who won something like 1 of his last 8 and suddenly got a title shot. What happened? He rocked Johnson with the lone big punch he landed.

    Havana in April is very nice weather. Look it up, then tell me if that's " hot as hell " LOL

    If you get something right, I'll agree with it. I have done so in the past.

    You do an amazing job of embarrassing yourself. Please keep up the good work.
     
  5. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No, his punch was the main factor there. You act like Johnson was putting relentless pressure of Jeffries to tire him out. You couldn't be further from the truth. Jeffries was basically able to fight at his pace and how he normally fights. Nothing overly exerting or tiring. Jeffries had been training for this bout for well over a year, and had made it down way before the fight happened. His stamina likely wasn't what it once was, but that doesn't mean it was the main factor, the main factor unquestionably was Johnson punch. While quoting some sources, you forgot the sources that said Johnson could've finished the fight any time he saw fit. They were already trying to figure out a way to get Jeff out of there early in the fight. Not because he was dead tired and unable to lift his arms, but because he had nothing for Johnson and was taking punishment. Those indicate they already knew Johnson was going to KO Jeffries, and it wasn't some concern over his stamina when these quotes were very early in the fight.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nope I never said Johnson did not punch hard .I said he wasnt a tremendous puncher like Liston,Foreman Louis,Dempsey. I said Johnson's style boils my **** and he has never been a favourite of mine.
    I just happen to detest compulsive liars like yourself brazenly repeating the same tired old lies which you know in your heart to be untrue and that is the only reason I engage with a **** like you at all! To continually correct your deliberate falsehoods which are motivated by nothing more than an irrational hatred of man who has been dead for over70 years You're still doing exactly what I have just described today, in this very post !
    Smith did NOT TKO Johnson it was a sparring session there are no decisions given in sparring! You've been corrected on this dozens of times but still repeat it! Don't tell me about Havana in April ! I was there last April and changing my T shirt 3 times a day, it's as humid as ****! And I was near the Malecon of course you haven't a clue what that even is have you? FYI its the seafront! I'd guess Willard would have a better idea of the weather conditions in Havana than you seeing as he, like myself has actually been there!


    Ross was a good enough fighter to beat;
    Palzer
    Kubiak
    Schreck
    Sullivan
    Harris
    Moran
    Gardner
    Ferguson
    And draw with Jeannette!
    Ross was a good puncher ,being able to land only one telling punch on Johnson is a compliment to Johnson's defence you donut!
    "Johnson sent Ross down for a count of nine in the first round. Ross went down again in the third for a count of eight. In the fourth round, Ross landed his only telling blow of the fight, a vicious right hand that shook Johnson. Johnson battered Ross over the last two rounds."
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  7. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Here's a novel idea, why don't champions fight their top contenders rather than seeking easy paydays against less deserving opponents.
     
  8. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Burns easily could have used the color line and avoided fighting Johnson. I would think out of gratitude at getting a title shot when the champion could have easily avoided him Johnson could have had the decency to do the same and fight the most deserving contenders.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ever heard of the White Hope Era?

    Don't address the thread's subject, just continue making the same silly posts ad nauseum. After all it's what you do and ,TBH that's all you do!
     
  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    I did address the thread's subject his best win is undisputably Fitzsimmons, there's nothing really to debate there.

    What about the white hope era? That doesn't absolve Johnson of his duty to fight the most deserving contenders. If he can beat them he could go back to fighting badly outmatched white hopes.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Burns fought Johnson because he was offered the unheard of sum of $30,000 to do so! Johnson received $5000 and he had to pay his training expenses out of that.
    Once he was champions he made $30,000 his asking price for a defence and the White Public were happy to pay it ,just as long as his challenger was a White Man!
    "Two blacks fighting for the heavyweight title wont draw flies".Tex Rickard
    "If I put two negroes on contesting the heavyweight title I would lose money ."Sunny Jim Coffroth
    "Two blacks for the title won't draw ."Barney Curley
    That's the three premier promoters in America during Johnson's reign.


    You do spout some absolute twaddle!
     
  12. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    I don't think my rage towards Johnson and other duckers is silly. Screwing guys out of title shots who have fought their way to the top of the rankings to fight lesser opponents is a despicable thing to do.
     
  13. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    So what? I don't think Johnson has any right to set the terms of how much money he will defend for. If he doesn't like the amount he is paid he can always relinquish his title.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnsons duty was to make as much money from the title as he could, he waited long enough for his chance at it!

    He was 30 years old when he finally got his chance.

    White promoters were willing to pay him$30,000 to defend against the likes of Jim Flynn simply because the public would pay to see it with prospect that the title might change hands and revert to a white man! They had no interest in putting on a black v black title fight because with no chance of the status quo being changed it would not make money! Why you cannot grasp this is beyond me!
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    In the long term I'm sure it made more financial sense for Burns to go on fighting lesser opponents even for less money than to fight Johnson in a bout he was likely to loose. As champion he could make more money than as a mere contender.
     

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