Greats whose legacies were most victimized by bad decisions

Hmm, I didn't consider this at all but makes you think. But would Hagler's all-time middleweight position or his all-time pound-per-pound position really be meaningfully higher if he won this? A lot of people would have said that Hagler simply beat a washed up welterweight if he won this fight. For instance, would folks put him higher than Greb, Monzon, or Robinson at middleweight, if he beat Leonard? I don't know.

 

I don't consider Hagler the best. He lost to a fading welterweight (albeit the #2 welterweight all-time) and barely beat a fading lightweight (albeit the #1 lightweight all-time, as well as the scorecard was a bit closer than they should've been). His best win was against a welterweight who was erratic at middleweight (albeit top 5 welterweight all-time). See the problem? I'd like to have seen him beat a natural middleweight great - or at least beat Leonard and/or Duran convincingly.

Hagler may have had the best chin I've seen, but Monzon is not too far behind.

Finally, Greb and the lack of footages represent an interesting dilemma indeed. This is why I don't rate people outside of my lifetime. But on the same token, I make that clear and do not outright discount the possibility Greb, et al. could have been better than the best fighters of my time.

 

The majority of polls at boxing forum I've seen have Leonard beating Hagler. The same is true of most polls of boxing writers I've seen. So while you may legitimately think Hagler won - and I can respect that opinion - to say that he "clearly won" is going a bit too much for me.

And if Leonard is not top 3 welterweight, who do you have there?

 

I guess we are just going to have to disagree on the Leonard-Hagler fight. It's really a difference in outlook or judging philosophy, rather than just one fight. So we can't bridge it.

I think having Armstrong over Leonard at welterweight is a defensible position, but I cannot agree with Hearns over Leonard - and Hearns is my favorite non-Korean fighter of all-time. Leonard beat Hearns when they were both in their primes. It can't get more clear cut than that. Leonard also beat Duran and Benitez at welterweight; Hearns cannot boast of a comparable win. I see no real argument for putting Leonard over Hearns at 147.

 

I forgot to reply to this the other day. The operative question here is: Would Armstrong be rated significantly higher than pound-per-pound lists if he got the decision against Garcia? He's already very high - top 5 in many listings. Would he be higher than Robinson if he got the decision against Garcia? Not likely? Duran? Perhaps, though I wouldn't. Greb? Pep? These are pretty difficult calls, and I do not think there is a clear case for putting him above those who are generally rated ahead of him, even if he is credited with a win v. Garcia.

 

Okay, you are now really losing me here. So anyone who wins a come-from-behind knockout is not as good as the guy who gets knocked out? Ridiculous.