Greb and the Heavyweights- Tommy Gibbons

Just for the hell of it, and to shut up morons like Greg and dempsey1234 I put

together a short smattering of sources from all over the country from some several

different points during Dempsey's reign to illustrate that Greb was considered a

viable Dempsey opponent both before he won the HW championship and well into his

reign. I could have posted many many many more but considering this is far more

work than the average forum poster and much more than anything dempsey and Greg

could offer I think it should suffice. You will also note that Greb is

consistently the one willing to meet Dempsey over any distance unlike how he is

being portrayed by some on here as saying that he didnt think he could beat

Dempsey:

Greb being touted as an opponent for Jack Dempsey in 1918
Aug 9, 1918
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/8918_zpsoiqee0v2.jpg[/url]

Promoters are trying to match Greb and Dempsey in 1918
Aug 18, 1918
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/81818_zpsfcdqreci.jpg[/url]

Two years before Greb fought Gibbons promoters from Canton, Milwaukee, Benton

Harbor, and Buffalo were trying to arrange a Greb Dempsey match.
July 3, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7320_zpsyljfpdbq.jpg[/url]

Proof that it was well known Miske was seriously ill for the Dempsey bout
Aug 10, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73128_zps6lldnyzt.jpg[/url]

Opinions that Greb could outpoint either Dempsey or Miske
Sept 5, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73129_zpss063h1v3.jpg[/url]

Greb discussed as a future Dempsey opponent, Buffalo is angling for the match
September 6, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73130_zpsiccrhzcp.jpg[/url]

Dempsey heavily criticised for the Miske fight
Sept 9, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73131_zpsvjx8hemq.jpg[/url]

Sound like a guy afraid to fight Dempsey?
Sept 11, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73132_zpsfe6ovrft.jpg[/url]

Greb agrees to a Dempsey fight to 10 rounds
September 23, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73133_zpsarssdwai.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73134_zpsh3honmv5.jpg[/url]

Floyd Fitzsimmons intends to match the winner of Greb-Gunboat Smith with Dempsey. Greb won. Dempsey and Kearns had been trying to get Gunboat Smith approved as an opponent by several commissions. They all refused unless Smith could prove himself against a top contender. He was matched with Greb, hence this fight being promoted as a title eliminator.
September 29, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73135_zpsz3i13nf1.jpg[/url]

More on the Greb-Smith elimination
October 1, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73136_zpska70x8au.jpg[/url]

Dempsey as quoted by his close friend Fitzsimmons as saying that this was a good elimination to decide a good contender
October 7, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73137_zpsjwg2swza.jpg[/url]

MW Tommy Robson thinks Greb would be a better match for Dempsey than many of the

guys they are attempting to match him with
Nov 13, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/111320_zps***ldfel.jpg[/url]

Pittsburgh promoters offer Dempsey $50,000 to face Greb. The same amount he just

accepted for Miske.
Dec 16, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/121620_zpsxl1bact7.jpg[/url]

Both Tex Rickard and Floyd Fitzsimmons are angling for a bout between Dempsey and the winner of Greb-Roper -Greb won
Dec 19, 1920
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73138_zpshpfza2qa.jpg[/url]

More talk of the Pittsburgh offer for Greb-Dempsey
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73139_zpsrqb7ifq7.jpg[/url]

Dempsey's friend Frank Farley thinks Greb is a suitable challenger in 1921 and

thinks Gibbons isnt rugged enough to face Dempsey.
April 14, 1921
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/41421_zpsvaq9z8tc.jpg[/url]

Article, written before Greb-Gibbons was signed listing Greb as a logical

contender for Dempsey and stating that a lot of money would be wagered on Greb in

the bout
Jan 22, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/jan2222_zpsmr1mhvkd.jpg[/url]

Before he is even signed in the eliminator to face Dempsey Greb is touted as a

prospective opponent for Dempsey another article states that he would be a more

attractive than Brennan, who Dempsey is attempting to face again.
Jan 26, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/jan2622%202_zpszar9odg3.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/jan2622_zpsdwnn6e5j.jpg[/url]
Feb 9, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/2922_zpsebybij3k.jpg[/url]

Rickard to match winner of Greb-Gibbons with Dempsey
Feb 11, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21122_zpsryan4ahh.jpg[/url]

 

Dempsey himself lists Greb as a prospective opponent
Feb 16, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21622_zps3xlk4clw.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21622%202_zpsksib1i09.jpg[/url]

Sam Hall, a boxing writer from Chicago, thinks Greb would be a better opponent for

Dempsey than Gibbons
Feb 17, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21722_zpsyewbyqas.jpg[/url]

I threw this in there to show that a lot of people felt like Dempsey was using the

color line to duck Wills. Either way the article makes it clear that Greb or

Gibbons would have to make a good showing to stand as a challenger. Considering

the bout broke records, had a huge turnout, and showed Greb in a virtuoso

dominating performance Id say he met that criteria.
Feb 18, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21822_zpsqgpldalr.jpg[/url]
Feb 19, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/21922_zpsu6x3ujjm.jpg[/url]
Feb 21, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/22122_zpswlhltv9c.jpg[/url]
Feb 25, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/22522_zpsdeglfmzx.jpg[/url]

Strange that the nuthuggers think there was no money there for a Greb fight but

the NY Daily News think there was.
Feb 26, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/22622_zpsjm0ylp2d.jpg[/url]
Feb 27, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/22722_zpslgoobagu.jpg[/url]
March 4, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/march41922_zpsqva0m83r.jpg[/url]
March 5, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/3522_zpseh3a4w97.jpg[/url]

Dempsey states that any man weighing 170 pounds is big enough to fight anyone.
March 7, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/3722_zps1vuubn4o.jpg[/url]

Another opinion that Greb would give Dempsey a difficult fight
March 11, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/mar111922_zps8ornpecj.jpg[/url]
March 12, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/31222_zps3tshd2uu.jpg[/url]
March 14, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/NYDN%20March%2014%[/url]

201922_zpslq4fo71m.jpg

E. W. ****erson, one of the most respected writers and referees in the midwest

states that Kearns admitted to him that they didnt want to fight Greb and states

that Greb would be a good opponent for Dempsey.
March 15, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/31522_zpsyxujm9ls.jpg[/url]
Mar 18, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/31822_zpswlmmiqcz.jpg[/url]

Fred Keats who was no fan of Greb's thought he would give Dempsey plenty of

trouble. Another article stating Greb would give Dempsey problems
March 22, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/001_zpspy4ese2s.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/32222_zpssynw9qt8.jpg[/url]

Freddie Welsh says Greb is the fastest fighter and the people speaking with him

say that if Dempsey doesnt knock Greb out he would be outpointed to a certainty.
March 31, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/33122_zps9xm20rap.jpg[/url]

This is that poll by the New York Daily News. You will note that Greb started out

fairly high. He maintained this position well into the poll but eventually fell

behind. Wills absolutely blew everyone away as Dempsey's logical contender.
April 23, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42322_zpsvvep6iml.jpg[/url]
April 25, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42522_zpsuajph2jt.jpg[/url]

So much for the idea that Greb thought he couldnt beat Dempsey over a long fight.

Billy Evans interviewed him personally and quotes him here saying that he thought

he could outpoint Dempsey in 12 or 15 rounds.
April 26, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42622_zpsoxrs5lt3.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42622nydn_zpszetu2lfe.jpg[/url]
April 27, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42722_zps8ooi89mq.jpg[/url]
April 29, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/42922_zpsqifiijd4.jpg[/url]
May 2, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/5222_zpss12rtsfc.jpg[/url]

Newspaper report on the fact that Greb-Dempsey would draw big numbers
July 2, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7222_zpsvqzhcnfm.jpg[/url]
July 3, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7322_zpswbi6kjnd.jpg[/url]
July 5, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7522_zpsqecmhgwt.jpg[/url]

Tom Bodkin was one of FOUR, count em, FOUR different promotional outfits bidding

on a Greb Dempsey bout in mid 1922.
July 6, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7622%20pdd_zpsv74ngsdd.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7622_zpscmrigpdg.jpg[/url]

Jack Kearns admits he had received the offer and pretends he wants to talk with

the promoters. He is in Chicago. The fastest way at that time to get from Chicago

to New York is to pass through Cleveland and then Pittsburgh, and on to New York.

Kearns either avoids Pittsburgh, or passes through and ignores promoters

(depending on which story you believe) to get to New York and then pretends he

cant understand why he hasnt heard from the promoters.
July 7, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7722_zpsdu1sturt.jpg[/url]

The promoters make it clear to Kearns that time is of the essence in order to

begin construction on the venue. Kearns stalls, delays, ignores, and kills the

Greb Dempsey bout.
July 8, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7822_zpsi3uypkbh.jpg[/url]

Kearns rates Greb as the #3 title contender behind Brennan (who Greb had beaten

four times) and Willard (who at this point hadnt won a single round of boxing in 7

years).
July 9, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/7922_zpsaxqalpyz.jpg[/url]





Kearns single handedly kills a fight with Greb by ignoring all offers and then

states hes waiting for the promoters who had desperately been trying to reach him.
July 10, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/71022_zpshdh35zya.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/71022nyt_zpsmj3hghz8.jpg[/url]

Promoters state Kearns stonewalled, killing the deal
July 11, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/71122_zps4fwnc9up.jpg[/url]

This is pretty typical of the double talk from Kearns. He states his intention to

have Dempsey fight four fights in 1922, one of which is Greb, and instead he didnt

fight any. Of the four he listed Dempsey had knocked out two and two he would

never face.
July 25, 1922
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/72522_zpsibnxvon7.jpg[/url]

Report saying Dempsey is reckless to risk his title against Greb. If Greb is such

a pushover as nuthuggers would have us believe why would contemporary experts

consider this a risky endeavor??
Aug 18, 1923
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/81823_zps4oeiqzgc.jpg[/url]

Newark promoters are wanting to match Dempsey and Greb. These are the same promoters who tried to match Greb and Firpo early in the year only to have Firpo decline and ask for an easier opponent
Sept 6, 1923
[url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19230906&id=CE4hAAAAIBAJ&sjid=I4IFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2760,402394&hl=en[/url]


Willard says Greb is the only man who can beat Dempsey
Sept 20, 1923
[url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19230920&id=5JMuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UJgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1713,3658858&hl=en[/url]

Promoters are working behind the scenes to match Dempsey and Greb. This is one of

many. There was a promoter around Johnstown, PA, that followed Kearns around the

country for the better part of a month prior to the Gibbons fight and past the

Firpo fight trying to get Kearns to listen to an offer and Kearns wouldnt even

consider it. Note that even though Wills has been the outstanding challenger for

years Dempsey is refusing to face him and despite their ignoring offers to fight

Greb are instead considering a rematch with Gibbons despite the failure of that

fight on a financial and aesthetic level
Sept 27, 1923
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/92723_zpsahgdm1lo.jpg[/url]

Greb is picked by midwest sportswriters as best opponent
July 24, 1925
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/72425_zpspzsnr6lc.jpg[/url]
July 26, 1925
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/72625_zpscmhmzpur.jpg[/url]
July 27, 1925
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/72725_zps1wclbudx.jpg[/url]

Bob Dunbar of Boston thinks Greb would give Dempsey problems
July 28, 1925
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/72825_zpso1lwnsxf.jpg[/url]

The same day Greb is headed to sign to fight Dempsey Dempsey says if he fights

anyone this year it wont be Greb, LOL.
July 31, 1925
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73125_zpshlhjy87q.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/006_zpso9y4dfce.jpg[/url]

Dempsey wont fight Greb but hes willing to consider Bartley Madden, who both Wills

and Greb have dominated. LOL.
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73125_zpswkfidmap.jpg[/url]

 

Years later
Kearns admits Greb beats Dempsey
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/kearns%20on%20greb-[/url]

dempsey_zpsotzstoic.jpg

Ed Smiths says Dempsey couldnt beat Greb
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73127_zpswnjhkrfx.jpg[/url]

Kearns ranks Dempsey, Walker, and Greb (the only fighter of the three that he didn't manage) as the greatest he ever saw... notice he doesn't mention Darcy. He places Walker first, Greb beat Walker.
[url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19370427&id=B1hTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_IQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1615,3100993&hl=en[/url]



Grantland Rice says Dempsey wouldnt stand a chance with Greb
[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/73126_zpsqm7ffpra.jpg[/url]


In light of the above I think its pretty asinine to pretend that Greb wasnt considered a high ranking contender for Dempsey, that Dempsey and Kearns didnt avoid Greb, that they werent trying to pick soft touches and weaker contenders to extend his reign and make easy money, that Greb had no support, that there was no money for a Greb-Dempsey bout, etc. Essentially all of the anti-Greb-Dempsey rhetoric spewed by morons like Dempsey1234 and Greg, neither of whom know jack **** about this subject, is based on anything even remotely factual. The bottom line: Did Greb deserve a shot more than Wills? Hell no and he didnt have anywhere near the support that Wills did. BUT, He deserved a shot more than anyone that Dempsey defended against up until Gene Tunney, he had support from writers, fans, boxers, and promoters. Money was on the table, damn good money, he was actively pursuing the match to the point of going out of his way to knock off guys that Dempsey was considering facing and had dominated guys that Dempsey did face and/or made the guys that wouldnt fight him run in the other direction (and yes Greg, Carpentier ducked Greb, he was offered the second highest purse of his entire career by Rickard to face Greb and instead he chose to fight Siki for about 1/10 that amount and attempted to fix that fight in his favor despite Siki's less than legendary resume... how did that work out for him). One of two things is going on here for the people who have tried to pretend Greb wasnt a viable contender: 1. They are in denial, hence my bashing them over the head with the context of the day or 2. They are simply ignorant. When Dempsey1234 admits hes read only a few articles about the circumstances then I would have to lean towards the latter but since hes been well schooled by McGrain, Berlenbach, and others on here its obvious is a mix of being in denial and blissfully ignorant.

 

at the end of the day ..............who gives afukkkkkk about harry greb:deal

 

At the end of the day youll still be begging me for boxing films youll never see.:hi:

 

1 fight man / but i got sum goodies also bro :deal
deal we should fight at 175 lbs u up for it ? cause im gonna knock u out ...skinny twerp :dealand again who fukking cares about hary greb leon spinks is much cooler anyways

 

still beat your gf ? i can tell your a very angry man and i know u have done stuff you shouldnt have done with females...when u should have just walked away and cooled off bro /

 

Klomton, you proved your point earlier on. Now you're burning down the house and singing comic songs on the ruins ...

 

I fail to understand what Dempsey1234 is trying to argue? That Dempsey could beat a MW that we have not seen footage of? Yeah, maybe, even though over a shorter stretch a lot of folks think (myself included) that Greb would outwork him. Some others have laid a plausible case for a Greb win over the long stretch too.

But at the least there's a cast iron case that Dempsey should have faced Greb.

 

You forgot that Carpentier was the current world LHW champion at the time and that is why Dempsey fought him... and look at the agte, it was a masterstroke

 

Coming from THE moron here I will ignore that

 

But Klomptom..... thanks for the sources it's good to see you are useful for something here.