Greb and the Heavyweights- Tommy Gibbons

Ok, since you have all the articles and such. Let's discuss something that can be seen. Harry Greb Training & Sparring (1925)
https://youtu.be/ZNE6V_RyBwg

1-Greb was a face fighter, flattened nose, heavy scar tissue
which means he was no defensive genius. And please don't come back and say, Greb's mug got that way after 1922.
2-the shadow boxing, most good pro's visualize. They are fighting and throwing as they would do in a fight. So if you want a taste of what Greb fought like, there it is.
3-In the sparring, it looked like the old man was trying and Greb was going through the motions. But if you look closely the punches and movement Greb was using were similar to what he was doing while shadow boxing.
Before klump goes on a tangent, yes it is a small clip but shows enough if you know what you are looking at.
Greb had an awkward style hard to time and to corner coupled with his arm punching style, his speed and jumping jack style. I can see why he would make some slower guys look foolish. Greb was a swarmer, who swamped his opponents with bunches of punches and being here there and everywhere. You could also see he sacrificed power for more speed. Power punches, require you to set yourself, arm punches are faster cos you can throw from any angle. Maybe that's why Greb and company wanted a short distance fight. All that bouncing around with no power behind the shots, wouldn't deter Dempsey at all, cos he would know, the only thing he would have to worry about was catching Greb and slowing him down.
Here is a quote from one of the best sports writers of that time who actually seen Greb and Dempsey live. In almost all the write-ups I read, yeah Greb could get the better of Dempsey but the longer the fight went, the more dangerous it was going to get.
'Grantland Rice
A Dempsey-Greb meeting would have Its point of Interest. There is even the outside chance that Greb
might go the route and pester the champlon as he pestered Gibbons and Tunney. But he is too fine a little fighter to risk the annihilation that might follow from a bigger stronger man. Dempsey isn't Gibbons or Tunney
Greb would probably hit him four times to one. But Dempsey's once If planted on a vulnerable spot, would
be destructive.'
If an old and tired Dempsey caught a young in his prime Tunney, I would think a young Dempsey would have caught Greb at some point. Even Greb knew Dempsey was nobody to fool with.
And last but not least, name somebody who was similar in style, speed and one punch pop of a young Dempsey, that Greb fought between 1919 and 1925?
I am looking forward to the klump's response

 

How many fights did Greb have when that was filmed? Have you ever met or seen Pernell Whitaker who had 45 fghts? Boxing is a hit and be hit sport.

 

You took a wrong turn somewhere, the Les Darcy forum is somewhere else.

 

Yeah isnt it funny that Whittaker has deep scars over both eyes, a gold tooth, and a crooked nose but was a defensive genius. Now Greb, who called impossible to hit in the head, had a battered face after 300+ fights but some moron who admits hes read a "few articles" takes a 5 min video and a few photos and thinks he knows everything about Greb. Incredible.

 

Yes I have seen Whitaker close up I had a fighter who was training with him. Since I worked with the Duva's I know what happened with Whitaker, if you would like to ck my guy was Eduardo Cruz, 16-0, 16ko's fought on the Whitaker- Ramirez card.
Compare the mugs of Philadelphia Jack and Grebs. That much damage came as a result of the way he fought, guys who fought much less fights than Greb had as much damage, it was cos of the way they fought. Even an real old man was bouncing right hands off of Grebs noggin. Greb, from the write-ups and the small taste of Greb, was no fancy dan or defensive stylist. I know Greb was "fooling around", but you could still see how he might have fought, if you watch closely Greb seems to be surprised that the old man was coming at him, for a split second Greb clutched and grabbed and threw the arm punches, after a brief exchange Greb came out of it with a smile. He was not there to hurt or go all out afterall.

 

Ah the klump answers, obiviously you have absolutely no knowledge of boxing your head is so full of trivia, and articles that you cant see the forest for the tree's. I happen to know Whitaker and I worked with the Duva's during that time. Whitaker had a major drug problem, that caught up to him.
You are really clueless, that old man was catching him. Since you are a book worm and know nothing of boxing in the ring, stick to your articles. And this is your silliest remark "Now Greb, who called impossible to hit in the head, had a battered face after 300+ fights." Pray tell who was hitting Greb if he was so impossible to hit? I have read that Greb, was rocked, staggered, cut, dropped in fights, so maybe he wasn't so impossible to hit.
You seem to skip this, name one fighter who Greb fought that was similar to a young Dempsey, from 1919 to 1925, in speed, style, and pop.

 

Greb was an incredibly great fighter as a middleweight. They don't make them like that anymore. However any talk that he had a snow***** chance in hell against an all time great HWT with one punch ko power like Dempsey is just malarkey to sell a book.

 

a) When did you work with the Duva's and Whitaker? We just might have met...

b) Pernell had some serious scarring for a guy who was defensive gem when I saw him before the McGirt and Chavez fights. **** happens in the ring. Everyone gets tagged.

c) If Greb was so face first, how come he was only stopped twice, both times very early in his career, and yet he fought 300 times and fought way outside his natural division?

d) Greb fought in an era where he had no tape on opponents, where he traveled by rail forgoing training to get to his matches, had no time to heal from injuries, had no modern medical treatment for cuts, no decent treatment for resulting infections and a schedule that was intent on re-opening existing cuts.

It's a wonder he looked as good as he did.

 

that is absolutely pathetic... so that's your response is it ? Yeah I suppose you should quit while you are behind rather than lose even more ground

 

Which is EXACTLY what Klompton did.... well said Perry

 

Dempsey's fans go nuts when you mention him getting a pasting from Greb in sparring, but are happy to post a video of Greb clowning in what wasn't even a sparring session to demonstrate that he'd have no chance against Dempsey.

 

If you know what you are looking for you can learn a lot from watching a fighter shadowbox and even fooling around as you say. The old guy was trying, if you watch closely Greb comes out of a clinch and smiles. I believe Phili Jack took Greb by surprise. Another thing if you watch the way Greb throws his shots as he is flexing then shadow box's watch his bouncing around, the same when he is "sparring". At one point in the sparring, as Phili Jack was throwing, Greb, had to defend himself, Greb handled it like a pro, he didn't fire back. There was more to that clip if you really look.
About this clip being the basis for thinking that Dempsey would beat Greb. There were other reasons why one would think Dempsey had a shot at beating Greb. For instance, size and strength. An old and tired Dempsey dropped a young in his prime Tunney, with not one shot but a series of shots dead on, that a young in his prime Dempsey, would not have done the same to a MW, if he caught him. Even Greb had respect for Dempsey's power. He must have felt the pop, while he was beating Dempsey up in the famous sparring session. Another thing that is apparent is Dempsey wasn't the usual slo-mo HW of that era he was fast and destructive. Greb never fought a HW as powerful and as fast as Dempsey. Greb should be happy he didn't have to face a ****ed off young Dempsey.

 

In which case you'd have to take Greb getting the better of Dempsey in sparring at face value. Let's face it, Jack wasn't exactly known for pulling his punches in sparring or exhibitions.