Greb - Does Anyone Have Him At Number One...

yep. no one gives those little guys respect because they are the same size as 12 year old boys.......and most of those boxing fans are out of shape grown men who still feel like they could take those 100lb world champions just based on their size alone.

 

His resume does not stack up to quite a few guys, which is why he's very rarely rated #1, that and he lost to the best fighter he ever faced 3 times.

Otherwise, that post doesn't hold much merit, as typically guys in the lower weight classes are the ones who recieve the most credit in P4P discussions. And fighters of the lower weight classes are brought up more often than you'd think, we have some very educated specialists on those lower divisions. I have a strong interest in them as well.

 

How would you say your knowledge on the lower weights is compared to your knowledge of Heavyweights(which seems to be your main interest, though one of my personal least favorite divisions)?

Do you take any interest in guys like Chang, Gushiken, Yuh, Arbachakov, Watanabe, Moon, Konadu, Roman, etc?

 

No I hadvn't, and I can say I am one of those people I described in my post above that tends not to pay attention to fighters below a certain weight. I have to confess I do not pay attention to fighters below 120lb, and I want to kick myself for it because their are a lot of good fighters in those mini weight classes.

defintley not as good, though I do know the featherweight, lightweight, welterweight, middleweight, light-heavyweight division very well in certain eras, and in other eras I am less knowledgable. But good enough knowledge to compile a top 20 list for those weight classes.

S

 

But his resume is quite excellent.....and even so his dominance and incredible longevity certainly makes up for it. SRR's resume is not overly as impressive as grebs, yet robinson rates # 1. How bout Film? Pep to me on Film had it all, Film verifies my opinion that he could be # 1 fighter of all time.

He lost to saddler after he nearly died in a plane crash. By the time he returned to the ring he was not the same physically, which only adds to his legacy that past his prime he was able to shutout sandy saddler in one of the fights, and outfought saddler on the cards in 3 of the 4 fights(2 of which he had to quit because of saddlers dirty tactics left him with permanant damage)..........I think Pep at his peak He wins a trilogy with Saddler. Make no mistake about it, Sandy Saddler is one of the greater fighters of all time, hes in my top 12. Just the very fact Pep was able to even fight in the ring again after the intense physical damage he suffered in plane crash was a strong accomplishment in itself, but to continue his dominant featherweight title reign, continue to beat top opposition until your mid 40s decades later.....is simply immortal!!

I have film of Willie Pep pre plane crash

 

SRR versus Pepp in a P4P discusssion, an important factor:

DIDNT ROBINSON BEAT PEP IN THE AMATEURS AT THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS (FEATHER)?

 

Nearly died how? Or do you consider the canard that he died as "near death"?

 

I know its unfashionable and sacriledge,but p4p i think roberto duran has a case based on skills in his prime,monzon,and leonard as well.
If these two aformentioned guys were american they would be right near the top of many lists.
It seems you have to lose umpteen times in your 'prime',have limited or no footage or be in wars v limited fighters to be no1.

 

I hear your criteria macca,but i think a guy like monzon should be rewarded for being utterly dominant and undefeated over quality opposition for seven years as champ. Robinson only won at two weights and failed at the third and never tried again. monzon could have won at 168 or maybe 175,but fact is he was miles more dominant than robbie,hagler or nard at 160.
Duran is no1 135 er,and beat a great welter (palamino.) and a top three welter of all time in ray. The barkley,cuevas,hagler fights just show how great he was above his natural weight. The equivelent is robbie at say 175 at which he did nowt.
As for leonard,he beat a trio of welters that even robinson cant match,beat a top three middle and won a crown at 154...Though his career was short it has more quality wins than many much longer careers.
Armstrong was great for his time,but his achievements were inflated by weak opposition,i dont count leonards,de la hoyas,mayweathers five weights as legit for similiar reasons. Armstrong would never achieve his feat in the modern era....If armstrong has a case so does mayweather,and i think we both agree,mayweather has no case.

 

Enquirer, quit while you're behind, you're way off base.

 

I think that the fact that most rate robbie as no1 welter,but not carlos as no1 middle is not strictly relevent. Carlos is very underrated and never really gets his props though i feel he is clearly no1 stylistically and resume wise at 160.
I cant see how robbie is number1 at middle,he lost to turpin (more problematic than leonard v duran 1.) and lost numerous times for the title. Carlos at middle was unbeaten as champ.

I cant think of ten better champs p4p than carlos.
The duran i am talking about is the lightweight and welter,it doesnt matter that he lost to hagler,hearns etc because he was never really any bigger than welter (if that.) and he was past his best by then.
His utter domination of 135,and his domination of palamino and leonard shows me his true nature. Beating leonard 12 pounds above his best weight is a way better achievement than anything on robbies or amstrongs resume,never mind the almost unparalelled hagler and barkley efforts.
I dont see the leonard loss to duran as very problamatic as montreal duran could have beaten any welter in history. I also feel armstrong would have lost to benitez,duran and hearns at 147,and even robinson would not emerge unscathed from leonards welter resume.

I agree that for his size duran was better than leonard,but ray may still have a case based on winning the rematches...

Finally,armstrong being no 1 is like floyd being no1,its just wrong.

ps; i will ignore 'sour pea',he is just an opinionated scmuck nuthugger in my book...